Death In Entertainment
Kyle Ploof, Alejandro Dowling and Ben Kissel discuss Hollywood murders, true crime, on-set deaths and more!
Death In Entertainment
Miss Cleo and the Art of Illusion (Episode 151)
Ever wondered if a TV psychic was the real deal or just a marketing genius? Join us as we take a hilarious yet insightful journey through the life of Miss Cleo, the unforgettable TV psychic whose commercials became late-night legends. From her start as Uri Del Harris in Los Angeles to becoming the voice of the Psychic Readers Network, we unravel the enigma of Miss Cleo. Was she truly clairvoyant, or did she master the art of 'fake-it-till-you-make-it'? Get ready for a rollercoaster ride through her colorful past, complete with humorous anecdotes and the fascinating backstory many never knew.
Step into the realm where personal storytelling mingles with deception and reality blurs with performance. We draw curious connections between public personas like Miss Cleo and Anna Nicole Smith, exploring their motivations to create elaborate yet sometimes fictitious narratives. With lighthearted humor, we navigate the Seattle theater roots of Miss Cleo's journey, exposing how a character created for a play morphed into a cultural icon. Listen as we compare Miss Cleo's memorable role to the likes of Progressive's Flo and other iconic commercial figures, while pondering the comforting allure these personas provide amidst their ethical pitfalls.
Relive the nostalgia of the 90s as we uncover the psychic industry's quirky charm and its darker underbelly. From the parody sketches that kept us laughing to the legal scandals that left us questioning, Miss Cleo's legacy is one of both laughter and controversy. Discover the truth behind the infamous Psychic Readers Network and the shady practices that left countless callers with skyrocketing phone bills. Despite the scandal, Miss Cleo remained a fascinating figure in pop culture, reflecting broader themes of identity and deception. Tune in for a ride filled with humor, insight, and a nod to the infamous world of TV psychics.
Death in Entertainment is hosted by Kyle Ploof, Alejandro Dowling and Ben Kissel.
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Gather round, dear listeners, as we peer into the cosmic crystal ball where fortunes are told, fates are sealed and late-night infomercials rule the land. She had the voice of a Caribbean auntie who always knew your business. Before you did A deck of tarot cards and a hotline that somehow always put you on hold. Please hold the line.
Speaker 1:That's right. We're talking about the legendary Miss Cleo, from her mysterious accent to her even more mysterious legal troubles. We're diving deep into the wild, wacky and kind of shady world of TV psychics. Was she a true mystic, a marketing genius, or just the greatest fake-it-till-you-make-it story of the 90s? Buckle up, because your future holds one heck of a story.
Speaker 3:The charge for this call is $4.99 a minute.
Speaker 1:So light some incense, shuffle your tarot deck and, for the love of Miss Cleo, don't forget to ask your spirit guides before giving out your credit card number. That's today on Death in Entertainment.
Speaker 4:Call me now live from Los Angeles 911.
Speaker 2:What is your emergency? Here in Hollywood now two counts of murder injury and death oh my god, shocking new details that has stunned the entertainment world.
Speaker 4:This makes me a little nervous. The hair stood up on my arms, just like in the movies. What do you call this thing anyway? Death.
Speaker 7:In entertainment.
Speaker 5:All right.
Speaker 1:What's up everybody? Greetings Ditto Universe. How are you?
Speaker 5:What up how?
Speaker 1:you doing everybody? Greetings Ditto Universe. How are you? What up, how you?
Speaker 5:doing. Hi Hope your Pro Ball Sunday week was good Absolutely fantastic.
Speaker 7:Nobody's thinking about the Pro Ball.
Speaker 5:Absolutely not.
Speaker 1:Not even the players.
Speaker 5:Definitely not.
Speaker 1:What's up everybody. My name's Kyle Plouffe. I'm Alejandro Dowling.
Speaker 5:And I am Ben Kissel.
Speaker 1:Yes, ben Kissel is here to stay. Everybody we are.
Speaker 5:Absolutely. Thanks all so much for enjoying the first few episodes of OK Bud and I'm excited to be part of the Death and Entertainment team.
Speaker 1:Yes, which, if you're watching this and not a part of the Patreon, it's patreoncom slash diebud. You get to see every show performed live before it goes out on audio only to all the other podcast platforms.
Speaker 5:It's very, very fun and we'll be adding more content to the Patreon. Again, it's patreoncom slash diebud. As the weeks go on, perhaps some political blabbing coming from my big old lips, because, god knows, it's a crazy time to be alive, yeah.
Speaker 1:If anybody hasn't seen us before I know the people watching us have but if you're listening to us for the first time, we have to warn you. We are a true crime comedy podcast, so there will be laughs, in spite of talking about very dark subjects.
Speaker 5:Okay, we have to laugh in the darkness.
Speaker 7:Yes, we do. I see a lot of laughs in our future with this episode.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, today we're talking about Miss Cleo, and so if you don't want to hear us laugh about her, then call another hotline. All right, and without further ado, let's get into it. Okay, so did you guys know that Miss Cleo was not born Miss Cleo?
Speaker 5:I would assume, not I would have. Usually, when the baby is born, they're not like this is a 65-year-old.
Speaker 6:Jamaican woman named Miss Cleo we're going to name her Samantha.
Speaker 5:No, I'm sorry, it's Miss Cleo.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Miss Cleo was actually born Uri Del Harris. Oh, and Cleo was a Leo. She was born August 12th 1962.
Speaker 5:I could see that she has Leo energy. She does Definitely.
Speaker 7:Were you really excited to find out that her sign rhymed with her name, and that too?
Speaker 1:for me that her sign rhymed with her name, and that too she was born august 12 1962.
Speaker 5:Not in jamaica, not in the caribbean. Why not even jamaica?
Speaker 1:queens, not even that. But in good old los angeles, california, nice, you guys know her as miss cleo. She was famous for playing that television personality. Uh, she was a spokeswoman for the psychic paper call minute service called the Psychic Readers Network, in a series of television commercials that aired from 1997 to 2003.
Speaker 5:Man, those commercials were on every single night. I remember it was. I would watch USA Network with Rhonda up all night and it would constantly show that Jim Carrey movie Once Bitten. I don't know why. Oh yeah, jim Carrey movie Once Bitten. I don't know why. Oh yeah, jim Carrey vampire film that I think he got famous, and they're like we got the rights to this.
Speaker 1:I only saw it between clicks, Like I never watched the whole thing.
Speaker 5:It was always on Rhonda Up All Night. It was that. And Miss Cleo, she would advertise twice in the same advertising block.
Speaker 7:Yeah, it was ubiquitous. You couldn't miss it. You couldn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so she was born in Los Angeles County Hospital, and she was born to Elisa Teresa Hopus.
Speaker 5:She just loves names that rhyme yeah, elisa, teresa and Cleo the Leo.
Speaker 7:That is a grand name, opus. Yeah, yeah, it really is Hopus.
Speaker 5:Oh, hopus. Yeah, Excuse me, oh, I actually like Hopus.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 5:Hopus. Yeah, excuse me, oh, I actually like Hopus better.
Speaker 1:Hopus Popus.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And David Harris.
Speaker 7:Okay, that's not so grand, I like that, just a normal name grounding her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but Elisa was a Californian and David was from Texas. Okay, she attended a very well-to-do boarding school, Ramona Convent Secondary School, a Catholic girls' school in Alhambra, California.
Speaker 5:Hey interesting.
Speaker 1:Not too far from here, right down the street. You know Miss Harris. She was an interesting character for many reasons, one of which is the sheer amount of fake names that she assumed over the years. Like I said, her real name was Uri Harris, but she also used various aliases, including, but not limited to, re Paris Uri, cleomilly Uri, paris Ray Del Harris, cleomilly Paris Uri oh, my goodness, and Cleomilly Harris.
Speaker 5:Why did she choose those names?
Speaker 7:And they're all basically the same name.
Speaker 1:Exactly so if she ran into someone on the street and they're like Cleo Millie.
Speaker 7:No, it's actually Milo Kelly yeah.
Speaker 5:She sounds like one of those American Girl dolls. Yeah, remember those things. They were made of paper, right? My grandma always wanted me to play with those, and I'm not the gay one.
Speaker 1:It's never great when you have enough fake names to start a baseball team. That's very true.
Speaker 5:There's something going on. I mean, I don't know if the baseball team would be that good given those names, but yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:She spoke with a thick Jamaican accent on TV. Reports suggest she had no direct Jamaican heritage whatsoever in her entire family tree.
Speaker 5:Is acting a crime. I ask you is acting a crime?
Speaker 7:Yes, it is actually well in certain, you'll find out all right.
Speaker 1:Instead she came. She says she came from a family of caribbean descent but was raised in the us.
Speaker 7:But it's not true okay yeah, didn't she also say she had 10 brothers and sisters? Yes, and then it changed. Sometimes she was from was from Jamaica, or her parents were from Jamaica, or one time, I think, she said that she was adopted by Jamaican parents.
Speaker 5:Yes, oh, okay, so she's got a lot going on.
Speaker 7:Yeah. Key word, though, is Jamaica. Yeah right, that's what she wanted.
Speaker 5:Well, that's how you know she's a psychic. Yeah, that's absolutely true.
Speaker 1:Over the years she's shared varying accounts about her parents and her upbringing. In 2006, she had an interview with the Advocate and she described being raised by strict Caribbean Catholic parents in Los Angeles who were aware of her sexual orientation. She was a lesbian. Okay, and she says that they were aware of her sexual orientation from an early age. Uh, she recounted that her family didn't openly discuss her being a lesbian, referring it.
Speaker 5:She referred to it as the pink elephant in the room oh, interesting, all right, so that's unfortunate she wasn't able to express herself sexually openly. Yeah, in her family that's probably true, to be honest, and I hope that they were nice to her. Yeah, good one, Alejandro, Get it. You do hope that they were nice to her. It seems as if they were accepting, but not open necessarily.
Speaker 7:Yeah, but what do they want? She's supposed to bring her girlfriend home and make out on the couch.
Speaker 5:Well, no, but normal relationships. I mean. Come on, you got to be a little bit.
Speaker 7:You know toning down a little for your parents.
Speaker 5:Well, I'm not saying have sex on the couch with a woman in front of your mother, but I am saying maybe you could have a girlfriend over for dinner, as normal couples would have their spouse or their significant other over for dinner.
Speaker 7:Then put on some girl-on-girl porn.
Speaker 5:Well Then put on some girl-on-girl porn. You're just making it all a perversion for your sexual fantasies.
Speaker 1:It's not the act. Okay, it's who they are. I know, I know. So, yeah, official records they confirm that she's from Los Angeles, her dad is from Texas and her mother is from California, and these discrepancies have led to confusion about her true origins. Friends and associates have noted that Harris shared different stories and it contributed to the enigmatic nature of her personal life.
Speaker 5:Okay. Can she tell the truth?
Speaker 1:This is what we definitely know for sure Zero connections to Jamaica or the Caribbean islands. She was, in fact, a lesbian. By some accounts, her parents were actually super supportive of it. Okay, so it wasn't just a wild rumor that she was a lesbian no, okay she.
Speaker 1:She blamed them for not being okay with it because they were conservative caribbean folk. But that's all bullshit, okay, she was actually kind of rich growing up. She went to a well-to-do private boarding school, um, and I was gonna say that she misrepresented these facts. But let's call it what it really is. She just straight up lied about pretty much everything.
Speaker 5:Misrepresented Is acting a crime.
Speaker 1:That's, you know, not yet I'm almost you know. But being weird and giving a fake background story to your friends. That's what.
Speaker 7:Steve Renn is easy Dad.
Speaker 5:What's a friend other than a future enemy? You?
Speaker 6:never want to know.
Speaker 5:You can't have everybody know the truth all the time, because next thing you know they're plotting against you. Everyone's got to have different information. When they come together at your funeral and then they're like holy shit, that makes the funeral a fun one.
Speaker 7:There's different versions of this, of course, but usually it stays as a stage persona, but it sounds like with her she was putting it in her personal life too. Right, what?
Speaker 5:have we learned from the Israeli military? The whole world is a stage.
Speaker 1:Right, it's true, the theater of operations is what they call it, oh.
Speaker 5:I love that theater. It's one of my favorite plays Operations.
Speaker 1:People's heads get blown up like a fucking grape, good God, uh. People's heads get blown up like a fucking grape, good god, uh. So this is also to your point, ben. This is something people do on a regular basis, like I know rich people that have grown up rich and they pretend they're poor because they feel like they get more clout, hate it. Uh, it's very annoying, like anna nicole smith yeah, people will not let us have that.
Speaker 1:What do you mean? They think that we're lying about anna nicole smith not being like being middle class or being well off early in life.
Speaker 7:She would always be like I grew up dirt poor. Yeah, but she didn't huh, Not at all. It was a normal upbringing.
Speaker 5:One person's normal upbringing is another person's poverty, though. We're from Wisconsin, so we'll be like we're doing pretty good, pulling in about 70, 75k a year, but they say in Los Angeles that would be below the poverty line. Yeah, you make a good point, but I think Anna Nicole Smith grew up in Texas or something she did. Yeah, Point muted.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she also told friends in adulthood that she had a very traumatic childhood that included potential abuse from quote, a regular visitor to the house, which is assumed to be an uncle, though details are unclear due to the difficulty of verifying her stories, as she often embellished details about her life. There's no concrete information about these allegations.
Speaker 5:Well, I will say, as someone who has worked with a lot of people that have gone through that and in many ways dealt with it myself you make up shit as a way to escape, so it might that very well could be true. And then she's like, well, I'm not, miss clee, I'm not whatever her real name is yuri I'm not yuri, I'm millie, you know, and so maybe that's a form of disassociation on her part good point plus could be dealing with her sexuality.
Speaker 7:that is, another, yeah, perhaps another, personality to her that she separated in some ways. Right, I think she has the making of a great psychic, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:She also told people like Alejandro mentioned earlier that her biological mother could not take care of her, so she gave her away to a woman who promised to take care of her and put her through a really good all-girl boarding school. Her friends don't even know if the story's true, but that's what she ended up telling everybody. Either way, regardless of past being true or not true, she did go on to have a future, you guys? Yes, she did so from Los Angeles. The next place we see her pop up is Seattle Washington, and I feel like this is a breeding ground for con artists.
Speaker 5:Seattle's an interesting spot for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah I, um, I. This is where I met someone who was a con artist in my life. Yeah, and I remember getting a text when I was out working one day and I get this video of a girl masturbating, being like I miss you, oh, and I go. Who is this? I didn't recognize the hand or the vagina that was in the yeah, interesting video and I'm like I get home and I show my roommate. I'm like dude, someone. I don't even know what to say to this girl. I was like I'm gonna call her. He's like oh, they probably won't pick up. I call the number and he doesn't know. But I see a phone light up in his fucking dresser drawer. What? Yeah, he's like they probably won't pick up and he's like but he's acting weird, wait, your roommate called you with a wait.
Speaker 5:Your roommate sexted you.
Speaker 1:Yes Saying send me a picture of you jerking off. Why would they do that? Because he's a fucking weirdo and he still does comedy. I'm not going to say his name, people might figure it out. But these people think I'm weird for not hanging out with him because he's so nice. And people think like they don't see that.
Speaker 5:I don't know, buddy, we'll talk about that. Off air, that's an off air that's an off air. No, that's an on air People.
Speaker 7:The gist is, his roommate probably wanted to see Kyle's nudes then. Yes, so he was pretending to be some chick, but he's also. But also he probably wants to exploit him later.
Speaker 5:Never assume they, like you People in the entertainment business, have no morality. You don't say Biggest kind of all-time Starbucks Seattle. Not good coffee. I'm sorry, dunkey, you're my boy.
Speaker 7:But they did have Kurt Cobain.
Speaker 5:That is true.
Speaker 1:Oh boy. So what she becomes known for in Seattle is directing and producing and performing in productions at the Langston Hughes Theater.
Speaker 5:So she is an actor. Yeah, this is my Okay.
Speaker 1:No, you're way ahead of the ball here. Okay, as always, you're nailing it.
Speaker 7:There's a venn diagram and it's acting, and psychics and scumbaggery is right there in the middle and at this point, when she's putting on plays at this theater, that's exactly what she should be doing with her talent. Yeah, nobody's hurt, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yet her acting uh associates, cohorts, co-actors and actresses. Uh, they found her to be very trustworthy and honest and a good person. But that's also the sign of a con artist is no one's ever been ripped off by an asshole. It's always a very nice person. That gets you. You know you don't feel as uh.
Speaker 5:You feel good about it. Yeah, you feel great about it, exactly.
Speaker 7:Yeah, like the music man that's who shows up.
Speaker 1:So she was active in the Seattle theater community under the name Ree Paris, and in 1996, she wrote and starred in a play titled For Women Only, portraying a Jamaican woman named.
Speaker 5:Cleo, oh my, are you kidding me?
Speaker 1:Origin story Hello. So she created Miss Cleo for a play in Seattle.
Speaker 5:I love this.
Speaker 7:Yeah, how great would it have been to see that play the beginning of an empire.
Speaker 1:Yeah, In 1997, Harris produced and performed in two additional plays at the Langston Hughes Performing Arts Center Summer Rhapsody and Supper Club Cafe.
Speaker 5:Oh, exciting.
Speaker 1:However, these productions faced financial difficulties, and this is where things start to fall off all off the wagon here.
Speaker 7:And, if I'm not mistaken, she talked in her normal American voice offstage with her theater company, correct she? What, offstage, like all the people that worked with her at this theater, knew her as this American girl, not jamaican woman. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5:Yeah, she wasn't going full. Andy kaufman, uh, jim carrey, andy kaufman. She wasn't miss cleo off stage yet yet, yeah, she wasn't like.
Speaker 7:Thank you very much oh big.
Speaker 5:What a show that was.
Speaker 1:So she ended up having her last hurrah. She did the Supper Club Cafe and she was directing that, and so she was in charge of paying everybody.
Speaker 5:Oh no, that's not dope. You don't want that.
Speaker 1:You get the rake, you pay it out, right, so she didn't pay it out Right.
Speaker 5:Yeah, maybe not the best person to be in charge of the finances.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what she did do was tell everybody that she had bone cancer. Oh, went that route, and then she skipped town and she would have crushed early days of all the GoFundMes.
Speaker 5:Oh absolutely Before GoFundMe kind of cracked down on that, which still a lot slipped through, she would have been loaded yes, she would have been all over that.
Speaker 7:Call me now and fund me life. Fund me now. Fund me next vacation you know she deserves a vacation I'm not saying I don't want to hang out with her.
Speaker 1:That's my problem right, oh yeah you'll get to this when you saw the documentary right kyle.
Speaker 7:yes, she had quite the friend group I'm sure she did Multifaceted.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so she provided letters citing the exact amounts owed to each individual and said that she would pay them after her medical expenses. Oh, my God, and everyone said that money never came.
Speaker 5:This is an IOU for it. What was the car from Dumb and Dumber? Oh yeah, never came. This is an iou for it. What was the car from dumb and dumber? Oh, you're gonna want to hold on to that.
Speaker 7:She literally dumb and dumbered it you know how cruel is that, though, to put on a show and make all these starving artists work for free, when I think they're getting paid yeah, oh, it's brutal, that's.
Speaker 1:That's a con, that's a con yes, um yes that is a crime. That's no longer acting, that's conning, yeah uh, these experiences in seattle's theater scene were instrumental in shaping the miss cleo persona that we all saw on tv as part of the campaign for the psychic readers network, which I didn't realize. She was just a spokesperson. I thought she started it. I thought she was the person and it was her company. She, it was not. So again, how was acting a crime?
Speaker 5:so that's now.
Speaker 1:I'm back to the same theory it really does come up to me now where I'm just like okay, she was flow. We all know flow is not flow, right, actress?
Speaker 5:yeah, she's not in charge of your progressive. By the way, the other day I saw the little guy. Yeah, one of our local haunts. No, not Peter Dinklage. She said little guy. Yeah, I'm talking about the guy from Progressive, non sequitur, peter Dinklage. I saw Peter Dinklage.
Speaker 1:I didn't see Peter Dinklage Megan, for no reason. He's not DeVito.
Speaker 5:No, the little guy from the progressive commercial. Oh, okay, funny little guy Tiny. Yeah, but he's also not. He's just an actor too. That's true. They should all be in prison then. Miss Cleo's in prison and dead.
Speaker 7:They should all be dead, no they should not be At the Psychic Friends Network, though they started off with a totally different woman Right At the start, and it was just some like white woman talking in her normal voice.
Speaker 5:Boring. That's not going to get me to call in. What the hell does she know? She looks like the person I'm going to call and complain about.
Speaker 7:And then Ree Harris, or whatever the hell her name is, walks in saying she's Miss Cleo, Like where do I stand for the audition now? And they're like you're hired.
Speaker 1:Well, Psychic Friends Network is a different one. There were so many of them. Psychic Readers Network there was a whole bunch.
Speaker 7:Yeah, was Psychic Friends, the one with Dionne Warwick. Let me see, remember when she was.
Speaker 5:Of course I do.
Speaker 1:This was the heyday, it was Dionne Warwick. Oh God, yeah, and.
Speaker 5:Linda Georgian and Dionne Warwick. A hell of a singer.
Speaker 7:Yeah, see that, the worst one, dm warwick, because she was trusted you. Yeah, she was so well established, a legend in the music industry, and she used all that goodwill to sell these psychic. I think there's outlines.
Speaker 1:I think there's one worse what billy d williams?
Speaker 7:yeah, oh my career like oh him and dion were essentially the same, then they had the same goodwill. Yeah, I don't necessarily agree with the very premise you guys are speaking fromwill.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I don't necessarily agree with the very premise you guys are speaking from, really, because I don't know if psychic networks are inherently bad, what if they make you feel good? They definitely make you feel good. But I mean, obviously it's the 10 minutes 10 a minute. Yeah, you know, it begins to be like am I calling someone in prison? What's going on? They all make you feel good, is that bad?
Speaker 1:they all said the people working. They referred to them as psychic sweatshops. Ah, and they said that, uh, the people who would call would be regular callers all the time. Oh, they chase that high of like. Oh, I'm gonna get good news today, got you so?
Speaker 5:it becomes very predatory it's very desperate and predatory.
Speaker 7:Yeah, and that's where it becomes bad, because the 900 numbers charged by the minute and these were people with serious psychological issues right, right right and very, extremely lonely and so then, they're paying all this money to someone that is pretending to be a psychic yeah, it's like when you get an email from adam schiff.
Speaker 5:Remember that during the election I got so many goddamn emails from politicians that I'm like who was the poorest sap giving them seven dollars every time because they're like this is the last we're gonna need, and they start crying and I think that's more manipulative than this perhaps.
Speaker 7:Yeah, politics is a worse way, worse animal praise on the saddest of the sad yeah, by the way, speaking of dm warwick and billy d williams, remember kenny kingston no no you guys don't remember kenny kingston. Who's kenny kingston? He was he was right up there. What, yeah, wouldn't you want to call that guy?
Speaker 1:let's for advice we need the people at home to see this I don't know, was that a?
Speaker 5:I'm from wisco like you. I don't remember Kenny Kingsman.
Speaker 7:Oh yeah, he was as ubiquitous as the Riddler guy.
Speaker 1:Oh, that dude With the question mark suit.
Speaker 5:Yeah, this guy looks like he's got the same haircut as the owner of the Los Angeles Raiders. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Pumpkin pie haircut.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that little Prince Pomperoy, yeah.
Speaker 7:It looks like Orville Redenbacher if he smoked crack.
Speaker 5:Yeah, instead of eating the popcorn, I watched a documentary on Orville. Apparently he really did love popcorn.
Speaker 7:What you don't say yeah, you loved it, chris loved it. The shocker is he hated popcorn.
Speaker 5:That's what I kind of thought it was Popcorn. You ruined my life. I'm more than popcorn. It's like no, you're not Orville, yeah.
Speaker 7:In the documentary we're referring to, call Me Miss Cleo. That is on Max Okay, a documentary about her, and in that they interview some of the people that worked at the Psychic Network, and all of them were just guys and gals off the street and so not.
Speaker 7:So not, of course not okay and you know how we were just talking about. Like people with serious problems would would call in and really need help. Yeah well, these workers felt bad, but yet they would still have to pretend to give them advice and, at the end of the day, these people didn't care if they were psychics or not, because they just needed someone to talk to.
Speaker 6:Yeah, oh sad.
Speaker 7:And one guy had a persona. What was it? Like Cassandra. He's like I'm Samantha from the South. Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1:But it was clearly a guy Like I closed my eyes to see if it could be a woman. It wasn't and he's smiling. People really liked cassandra. She really liked samantha. It's probably really offensive to people who born in the south in america, but that's literally what he was saying here's the other thing to think about with the psychic readers network is that you see miss cleo on tv.
Speaker 7:She's like call me now. And you're like, oh cool, I want to talk to miss cleo. So you dial in. You're not going to get miss cleo, you don't get miss cleo no, you don't get miss cleo, so you get this guy pretending to be samantha cassandra from the south, and so some people, though were, would be encouraged to kind of talk in a jamaican accent to get cool, yeah, okay that was part of the work that people would be like well, what if people are asking if they want to talk to miss cleo because that's she says, call me now.
Speaker 1:They're not calling one of us now and uh, they said they were supposed to be like just put the phone away from and be like is miss cleo here?
Speaker 7:like oh no, she just stepped out, sorry you got me interesting but then they would keep them on hold to make them pay more money. Oh my goodness oh, that's horrible, so we have a clip here from one of the people that worked at the hotline.
Speaker 6:Yes, Yo, big up to you them way out of Kingston. We wake up this morning and we see the thing tunnel Internet gone mad.
Speaker 5:Respect. You don't know, I'm so far with the yard Booyah, booyah, urgh.
Speaker 6:Big ups that is horrible.
Speaker 5:That is the worst accent I have ever heard.
Speaker 7:Oh my goodness, Full disclosure. That was actually Chet Hayes. Oh my God, Tom Hanks' son. Yeah, His name's.
Speaker 5:Chet Hayes.
Speaker 1:Chet Hayes, Chet Hanks, who knows?
Speaker 7:Oh, you don't know about that. I don't know anything about that family. Just Google Chet Hayes, Jamaican sometime.
Speaker 5:I do know that he fell in love with a Jamaican gal and then he couldn't stop, couldn't stop the patois.
Speaker 1:Okay, so here's the commercials that we all know.
Speaker 8:You have questions, I have the answers. Who asked you to go out of town? The stupid young one or the married one? The married one, that's what I thought. Don't go, you hear me. If you want him to believe that it's over, then you got to stop accepting the booty calls at 2 am in the morning. People have been criticized and jabbed at and talked about throughout the ages for having different beliefs, and apparently I am no exception. Although it is a constant challenge, I will continue. I will not allow them to stop me. I will teach as a shaman and help those who seek the knowledge.
Speaker 5:She went straight shaman at the end, huh.
Speaker 1:Shango shaman is what she called herself. Really yeah, she's from a line of Shango shamans. No kidding.
Speaker 5:All right.
Speaker 7:Yeah, and you couldn't ask her too many questions about where she came from.
Speaker 5:Well, obviously not Me, don't know. Also, the accent definitely dropped when she said the words booty call. Yeah, they should have.
Speaker 1:Booty call. It's just a booty call. She called herself Miss Cleo. She should have been called Miss Remembran.
Speaker 5:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:I'm just laughing.
Speaker 5:Remembran Is this thing on.
Speaker 1:I don't get it.
Speaker 4:remembering her past, oh it's always the best when you explain them that's for the folks at home.
Speaker 7:You're welcome really funny I think that she wanted everyone to believe that she materialized out of thin air. Yeah, through mystic power.
Speaker 5:It was the 90s. No one knew where you came from, where you went. You just you entered and extended people's lives willy-nilly yeah, and I'm in time of american freedom oh for sure, and it was prosperous, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 7:I think, though, really be like if you're calling the number, you're paying the money. Do you really want to talk to kenny kingston? You want to talk to someone like miss cleo? Of course, that's why it works so well a psychic named kenny.
Speaker 5:Yeah, what the fuck I'll go listen to your like folk band maybe, but I'm not listening to you giving me advice. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm your masseuse, frankie. No, thank you, fuck out of here. Okay, so we need a clip of. What do we need a clip of right now?
Speaker 7:What would you like a clip of? Oh, the parodies. Oh, yes, Because this you were just saying before the show. It must have been huge, because we in Wisconsin heard of her.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I realized if I heard about anybody from Stevens Point, wisconsin, after I left, they were mega stars, but at the time you're just like well, I guess they just know Stevens Point, wisconsin. Yeah, like no, they don't, they just know Peter Weller. Oh my God, robocop from my hometown, robo Me, mimi Bobeck, peter Weller, I still think I'm in the top five of the most famous people from Stevens Point. Hey, I think no one told me that let's go, but you know, whatever, and I'm still not even in the top to make their careers by ruining mine.
Speaker 5:Hey that's great.
Speaker 7:What a level of celebrity Uh yes, so yeah, she was huge, she was everywhere. Early two thousands.
Speaker 1:She was being parodied and that's the documentary said. That's when you know you've made it.
Speaker 7:When people start parodying, yes, like people get upset about it, but it's like no, get upset about it, but it's like no, that's when you're next level, famous right so.
Speaker 5:So here's deborah wilson on mad tv. Oh, I love this. This is actually a great sketch yeah operators are standing by.
Speaker 8:Oh, and we have our very first caller.
Speaker 3:Hello caller hello, is this cleo? Yes, baby, it is. Oh, you're the one that can see into the future.
Speaker 8:yes, yes, darling, you got the right, cleo oh honey, can I ask you a question?
Speaker 3:What Was you working on September the 10th?
Speaker 5:Oh my God, oh my God, that's hilarious.
Speaker 3:Well, yes, yes yes, really, you didn't see anything strange going to happen on that next day.
Speaker 8:Um no.
Speaker 5:That is hilarious, Matt TV. It had its moments.
Speaker 1:There's something that actually kind of happened like that with the psychic. Do you remember Sylvia Brown that used to go on Montel? Yes, of course, Hi, Montel. There was a woman who went there that wanted to speak to her husband in the afterlife and she's like, oh, I see him drowning and she's like he died in the Twin Towers on September 11th.
Speaker 4:Oh my.
Speaker 1:God. And she goes do you think there could have been some water in there and they were like no.
Speaker 7:And Montel was trying so hard to make it work. Yeah, you know, maybe he was drowning in the smoke or something.
Speaker 1:Maybe he knocked over a cup of water the end of her career.
Speaker 7:She was even worse though. She was worse, she would talk to victims' families and try to pretend like she knew.
Speaker 1:Like help the police. Yeah, Told parents that a girl was murdered when she wasn't.
Speaker 5:Oh, my goodness, she's dead. Yes, he died. Give up. South park did a great. Uh, I don't even think it was a parody, it's just a straight up skewering of crossing over. Anthony edwards, not anthony edwards jonathan edwards jonathan edwards.
Speaker 1:John edwards, yeah, yeah, because, yeah, people were really desperate yeah, and he's the worst too, like he'll be, like, uh, be like someone with a grandfather, with a ERMFL.
Speaker 5:Yeah, someone whose grandfather is older than them? Anyone, anyone. Do you have a child?
Speaker 7:younger than you, and they prey on people who are grieving.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it's brutal, and then in that case I think he also had audience plants. That whole thing was a ruse, yeah so it becomes so massive.
Speaker 1:Uh, she's literally just the face of the company. So I have more sympathy for for what comes next, because what ended up happening is the psychic readers network. They were getting so many calls and they would have, you know, maybe some fraudulent calls where you know you see the commercial and then you're a kid and you think it's funny to call the Psychic Readers Network, sure, and then your parents are on the hook to pay for that, of course, and then parents would say, hey, fuck you, I'm not paying that.
Speaker 5:This is the modern day equivalent of in-game purchases. Oh, okay, where all of a sudden, your credit card is is $50,000 and you're like, why, oh, you need a new sleeve for your Call of Duty firearm. I need skins, bro. I need skin. I wanted to be family guy.
Speaker 7:Did you both call the psychic line? At least once we would call.
Speaker 5:Christian lines and do that whole thing. So, we would make fun of it, but those were free.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe a couple of sex lines, but not really I just racked up a 2500 bill on 411, looking for the contact information for billy joe armstrong, because that green day I wanted to invite them to play my birthday party. I was like seven years old. 2500 back in the day. If you called 411 in another state it would charge you so much more so and. I kept calling over and over and they kept saying no and I was like, well, you just don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 7:Wow.
Speaker 1:Was it paid? Oh, my dad ended up having to pay it. I was there what? He had part-time visitation rights, so every two weeks I would go over and the mail came two weeks later and he's like who the fuck?
Speaker 5:got 411?.
Speaker 7:It's like Buzz at the end of Home Alone. Yeah, literally, kevin.
Speaker 5:For some reason that part-time visitation went away. I don't know why.
Speaker 7:Yeah, I only racked up a $25 bill because I hung up right away.
Speaker 5:Oh man, you really, you cursed that poor man.
Speaker 7:Yeah, that's weird, though they were at such expense Like it wouldn't cost that much to get green day to play at the party, probably yeah, well, you know, I tried, lessons learned.
Speaker 1:I'll see him someday. Yes, um, and so those ended up becoming collections sent to collection agencies. The collection agencies would send a demand letter to the parents and they would be signed by cleo they.
Speaker 5:Oh okay, so who's ever in charge?
Speaker 1:kind of set her up to be the fall guy she that's like progressive saying hey, you owe us for money and it's signed by flow it's yeah, exactly.
Speaker 7:No, that's a spokesperson it's signed by tony the tiger yeah, right.
Speaker 1:So there's some attorneys in florida that I've just they've had enough and they realized that the psychicic Readers Network is based in Broward County. So in 2002, florida, attorney General, bob Butterworth that's a good name, bob Butterworth Bob Butterworth's in town, and you're not getting away with this shit anymore, any relation to the missus.
Speaker 5:Could be. If I go to fucking prison for life because of Bob Butterworth, I'm going to be so pissed off. I'll be like what did you do? Well, I stole a bunch of pancakes and bob butterworth came after me. Kai, doesn't let you get any pancakes for free in this goddamn town, christ so because they were signed by cleo the they, florida attorney general, bob butterworth.
Speaker 1:He sued fictional character miss cleo for violating the state's deceptive and unfair trades practices act it's florida.
Speaker 5:Yeah, have you been to florida?
Speaker 1:they've sued a fictional character at this point oh my god so that's how they got her in. They roped her in because she signed the, the uh demand letters, but they found out through depositions and all that that she didn't sign it yeah they were clearly just fucking her over.
Speaker 7:They foraged it so but I want to know is what did it say? Actually? Did it say, miss cleo?
Speaker 1:yes, so then the lawsuit was based on. Since they named her name, they went and did a background check and they realized that her name was yuri harris and so that came out in the news and it like put a huge hole in her career right, because she was no longer seen as this jamaican shango there was shaman, there was an era, an era of kayfabe, where kayfabe still lived. Yeah, kayfabe being the fictional world that we all agree to in the wrestling world exactly, okay, I was just pretending to understand before, but he just lets it fly out.
Speaker 1:Oh, come on believe.
Speaker 5:It's like when you believe in batman verse like, oh okay yeah, you don't believe in that?
Speaker 7:yeah, all right, that makes sense now thank you.
Speaker 5:I believe that if I saw robert pattinson I'd be like what are you doing up in the day, don't you have to sleep.
Speaker 7:Fight crime tonight, yeah we have a clip, remember, of the lawsuit. Yeah, I was portrayed in the media.
Speaker 1:Yes, so the state of florida. They sued, they subpoenaed for miss cleo's birth certificate and other records. The state prosecutors uh had depositions with miss cleo about her background. Uh, miss cleo's attorney argued that the lawsuit was politically motivated and the case was closed later that year after miss cleo and the companies worked uh out a deal. Okay, uh, the charges were. They alleged that miss cleo's claims were deceptive. So the lawyer was like you can't just say you're a psychic network and then write on the bottom of the commercial for entertainment purposes. Only you can. You're still lying to the people, but you're not. I agree with you.
Speaker 7:Yeah, yeah, I don't know about this one. Like it's morally it's terrible, yeah, but is it really illegal? Is it a?
Speaker 1:crime. Yeah, so here's the birth certificate saga.
Speaker 6:It's about her birth certificate, which shows her to have been born in Los Angeles to American parents to keep it purposely vague.
Speaker 2:You may have this birth certificate, but is it accurate? Well, yeah, I mean I can't dispute that, but there are lots of reasons why I speak with a Jamaican accent and I'm really from Jamaica, but doesn't this document prove otherwise? I mean, that's how the deposition went.
Speaker 4:It's a fairly straightforward question Is she or is she not from Jamaica?
Speaker 6:She is from Jamaica in as much as this is her lawyer yeah, and he's drowning he is from jamaica in as much as anyone who has jamaican ties to that country or to any other country that they claim they speak. She speaks with the jamaican accent and um as as much of jamaican as anyone that claims that country are their culture it's a lot.
Speaker 5:You know, it's like very intense music considering what we're doing here. But okay, they're, they're on it. Yeah, they are the perp water and everything. Yeah, what about the people that were the financiers of this whole thing? That's the big. Who are they?
Speaker 7:they? They are Steven Fedder and Peter Stoltz. They're the ones that started Psychic Friends Network and hired Miss Cleo.
Speaker 5:What happened to them?
Speaker 7:Well, I'm sure Kyle will tell us. Psychic Readers Network. What did I say, friends? Oh, I keep saying.
Speaker 1:Psychic Friends. But this is what they do. This is deception. They were trying to get you to think you're on the same company.
Speaker 7:Well, it worked. Yeah, because it you know it's like WCW and WWF.
Speaker 5:It's not at all like that.
Speaker 7:I guess I'm not. I can't talk about wrestling no you can't, because you hate it.
Speaker 5:I don't hate it. You openly criticize wrestling and it's very difficult.
Speaker 7:Do not hate it at all.
Speaker 5:I love it now. They're young for us and they entertain us.
Speaker 1:I've been flipped. We watched Royal Rumble last night Great, really fun. I went to bed early and now we're going to watch the news about Miss Cleo and the lawsuit here.
Speaker 4:If you're up in the middle of the night channel surfing, you may come across one of those infomercials that promises you to put you in touch with a psychic. Most viewers probably just keep on surfing, but those who stop and call in, well, they're put in touch with something. All right, A telephone bill. Way beyond what they probably expected. All right, bro, call in.
Speaker 8:Call now for free trail reading and discover the truth today. Call me now.
Speaker 3:Call now and try it for free. Well, here's one she just didn't see coming. A legal fight with the government is in the cards for Ms Cleo.
Speaker 4:Ms Cleo calls herself a psychic, so you'd think she would have seen this one coming.
Speaker 5:Oh, shut it I think she should have seen it coming.
Speaker 7:I hate you, anderson Cooper, so we knew. But then you probably knew that anyway, didn't you, hey Hundreds?
Speaker 3:of people have complained about a so-called free tarot card reading.
Speaker 7:One. They were charged. That's a bet.
Speaker 5:Oh, there's Bob, that's Butterworth, that's Butterworth right there. Oh my God, not very buttery Slippery fingered Butterworth. A good tarot card reading does go about $100.
Speaker 7:No, but it was advertised as being free. Yeah, call for your free reading. So that's the problem?
Speaker 5:Yeah, there's no free meals, not in America, Not even if you go to school and there's a lunch. It's kind of a problem actually.
Speaker 7:Do you think when that guy yells at his rebellious teenage son, he says you need to start acting like a butterworth? The name means something.
Speaker 5:Damn it yeah yeah, what is this in my house? Is this margarine? I never thought I'd have a son who brought margarine into this home. Oh, we're butterworths, damn it so stupid the psychic readers network.
Speaker 1:Uh, they did say that call for your free reading, right, I see?
Speaker 1:so that was the problem yeah, the callers were that were taking the calls. They were given a script to read from a computer program uh, to simulate a tarot card spread. The first three minutes were free, but the callers were charged after that. So the game was keep them on the line. I got you. They were told 18 minutes. Is the the like, the good zone? Keep them right around 18. You can go longer. Once you get them at 18, then you keep them on. And what was it? A minute? Uh, five bucks, 4.99 so99.
Speaker 5:Oh my God, yeah, that's coming in fast, that money.
Speaker 1:The 90s the minimum wage the callers were only getting, maybe minimum wage $5.50?. Yeah exactly, so they're getting hourly what they're getting in a minute.
Speaker 6:Holy hell.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were asked for their name and address to be used for mailers and ads. They just got everything, all the information to be used for mailers and ads. They were, they just got everything, all the information. Um, some callers were told they were speaking, speaking to miss cleo, but they were actually speaking with an actor right who?
Speaker 5:is also miss cleo. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, what's the difference, right?
Speaker 1:it's like santa claus you can have different surrogates yeah, uh, so psychic readers were not off the hook. They ended up having to go to court, okay, and I believe, because they're the ones who actually are the perpetrators here yeah, exactly, the ftc wasn't having this shit. They let miss cleo go because they realized that she was just a pawn in the game. They did so she didn't serve time, nothing.
Speaker 5:No, she didn't have to pay any fines?
Speaker 1:nothing, because they realized that she was getting completely fucked over. The lawyer literally was like the one that was trying to prosecute her was upset at how bad of a deal that she got. She wasn't making any money. I thought she ran away with a billion dollars. Yeah, she got almost nothing. They did she didn't. Yeah, exactly, the Psychic Readers Network took all the money.
Speaker 5:Who are these assholes again?
Speaker 1:Stoltz and something else. Fader, fader.
Speaker 5:Steven Fader and Peter Stoltz. Yeah, what a bunch of schmucks.
Speaker 1:So the FTC came in. They charged the companies with deceptive advertising, billing and collection practices and the FTC alleged that the companies made over $1 billion using these shady shyster tricks. Oh, it makes sense. Yeah, the companies in whole settled with the FTC by paying a five million dollar fine and refunding some callers okay.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I mean this is different than one of those sex lines, because the sex lines the goal was to get it done real fast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if the first three minutes are free on a sex line, you can pull that off what's what's stopping you from, like, becoming this major uh scam network if you're gonna make a billion dollars and then only have to pay off five million?
Speaker 5:Right, and they didn't serve time either. No, it's just vanity.
Speaker 1:It's like a vanity stat Like, oh, they paid five million. Most people are like, oh my God, that's a lot of money.
Speaker 5:So no one went to jail in the scandal.
Speaker 7:Those two guys had to admit to deceptive practices or something. If I made a billion, I would admit to anything and essentially they were arrested at one point but then they were back on the golf course by sundown, so it was like a slap on the wrist. They did have to stop the Psychic readers network.
Speaker 5:Yes, but that's about it. Yeah, definitely wasn't the end of psychic infomercials though. Yeah, no For sure.
Speaker 7:Are they still around?
Speaker 5:Psychic stuff is everywhere. Yeah, probably more now than ever.
Speaker 7:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah, the internet is full of that stuff.
Speaker 7:But you don't see it hitting the culture like it did.
Speaker 1:There's a huge one in Massachusetts, Maureen Hancock, and my mom goes to see her like twice a year.
Speaker 7:My mom goes to see her like twice a year.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, yeah, she does like stadium, like huge theater for people.
Speaker 5:I mean it's kind of fun to see.
Speaker 7:Yeah, okay, I'll have to try it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so all's well that ends well. The hole was in the ship. It went down and Miss Cleo was done and she was still. It was weird she was doing interviews like well, after the Psychic Readers Network went down and she was still using the persona.
Speaker 7:Yeah, we have a clip of. There was a documentary she wanted to put out there to legitimize her after this fiasco happened.
Speaker 5:Be careful who you pretend to be. You might just become it.
Speaker 7:So here it is, Miss Cleo without the mask.
Speaker 8:You know, on television. They wanted me to appear like I had just arrived on the scene, straight out of Bush. Well, that wasn't the case. I actually had a higher up. Tell me one time. Well, don't tell him you went to an all-girl boarding school, why not? Well, we really don't want people, you, to think that you know what, that I'm educated right.
Speaker 5:That's unfortunate, so she's a victim in some ways here too, I think so, and she kept up the voice after that, which is interesting yeah, uh, in her final, she passed away very young.
Speaker 1:She died from colon cancer on July 26, 2016, at the age of 53.
Speaker 7:And unfortunately, that cancer was real. Yeah, not like the other one. She had Right, that means she was only in her 30s when she was doing peak mescluny, yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1:so yeah, wow.
Speaker 7:She was sort of ageless if you think? About it. Yeah, yeah, they say that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she was hospitalized after the cancer had spread to her liver and lungs, started in the colon. That chick can move fast. She was discharged from the hospital and placed in hospice care and still continued to do readings privately from her hospice bed. Wow, why not For charging clients up to $100.
Speaker 5:Oh good for her Hustle. Till the end I've got to get my colonoscopy in two years. My doctor told me I'm 43, they say 45.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, I thought they moved it up. No, I feel like they just want to get the younger guys get up their asses.
Speaker 7:She wasn't too thrilled about the idea of having to do it, and did you know that she did it one more time? She put on the act oh really, for a 2015 commercial. We have the clip. Oh okay, let's see it.
Speaker 8:Miss Cleo is back. No, do you have silverware sweet pea? Oh, my God, you have silverware. I sent you something other than a knife and a fork. I have a spoon. How did you know? Now I have a vision that you are going to take that spoon and scoop up a bite of French Toast Crunch. What All cinnamon and maple syrup-y? I can't believe. You see, all that French Toast Crunch is back and I'm going to eat it now.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, eat it now.
Speaker 7:Eat it now. You want to hear something infuriating. What Stoltz and Fader sued her after that. Oh my god she had to stop doing the character again.
Speaker 1:But that was a joke commercial. Yeah, that was an actual French toast crunch commercial.
Speaker 7:That was real. General Mills paid her.
Speaker 5:Oh, my god, my okay, I was so confused. Okay, I was confused too. I didn't know that was a general mills commercial.
Speaker 7:Yeah, yeah, and so I was saying in 2015 she did it one more time. She got that in before she died, but then she was sued right after it because those assholes own the persona.
Speaker 1:They own the character. Yeah, that's what house they said. How bad of a deal she got is. They actually took the character away from her. They trademarked it, wow.
Speaker 5:So if they really wanted to, they could send out another black lady doing the same. It shows you just how mainstream that character was. If Kellogg's or whatever General Mills used it in an ad, used her in an ad.
Speaker 7:And then it never really left the zeitgeist.
Speaker 1:No, and that used it in an ad, used her in an ad, right, and it never really left the zeitgeist. No, and that was a year before she died, which is crazy. Wow, she seemed in decent shape there, but, um, yeah, they said that after her tv career ended. She voiced characters in grand theft auto vice city, nice. Um, and, yeah, resurfaced in the 2014 documentary Hotline Hotline, indeed, that was before the Call Me Miss Cleo, the documentary about her life that premiered on HBO Max December 2022. And then the last thing that we have here. I spent all night trying to find it. You can't find anything, but they did a Lifetime movie on Miss Cleo. Oh my God, her Rise and Fall, and all you can find is the trailer.
Speaker 5:So we will watch that together.
Speaker 8:Don't go blindly through life. Let me use the power of the tarot to show you the way. Call me now for your free reading.
Speaker 5:Based on a true story. Let's make some money this is Cleo.
Speaker 8:You're our highest earner ever. The sky is the limit.
Speaker 7:No one could foresee. Keep him on the phone. You're our highest earner ever. The sky is the limit. No one could foresee.
Speaker 8:Keep them on the phone. You got this. Tell me about your dreams 24 million a month. You're mocking our Jamaican heritage. You've been served.
Speaker 5:You do not need a crystal ball to know that the FTC will stop deceptive trade practices.
Speaker 8:She's ripping off millions of people.
Speaker 4:I'm paying my bills and taking care of my kids. I'm not hurting anyone. Let us talk to the lawyers. These things blow over. People put their trust in you, ms Harris, are you even a?
Speaker 5:psychic. Our name's in the lawsuit, but it's my face.
Speaker 1:Ms Cleo her rise and fall.
Speaker 5:Oh my God man. Lifetime movies are the best, yeah I, I can't.
Speaker 1:We have to find that somebody please.
Speaker 5:If you find a link, please send it to us at death and entertainment at gmailcom yes, do use the dark web for what it's supposed to be used for finding old, discontinued lifetime movies yes, the thing is, it's not old at all, it was 2024. Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 7:It's 11 years old. That shows you again how much she's still around in everyone's minds For real. They did mention in that trailer that Jamaican woman's like you're making fun of us. Yeah, that was interesting. In the Max documentary they interviewed Jamaicans and they all said, oh, we knew it was fake the moment we heard it Wow, I'm sure they did.
Speaker 1:It's like when I see a movie and it's a bad Boston accent. I'm like that guy. Nobody else notices.
Speaker 5:Right, oh, go ahead. It was like the movie Fargo. If you're from Minnesota, some of the accents are like no, that ain't right.
Speaker 7:We don't sound like that and I would have no idea. I thought it was great, they were pretty good. They were pretty good, yeah, and then the same went for black people. They also knew it was an act.
Speaker 5:But you know who didn't? White people? Of course not. We don't know anything.
Speaker 7:We're like oh yeah, that makes sense and it was revealed that she had this big friend group. Did you notice something about them?
Speaker 1:kyle well they were black. No, they were all white later in life, but the ones in seattle were all black no, but they weren't friends.
Speaker 7:They were. They were the ones that weren't paid by. That's true too. No, she had this big friend group, all white, and they all said I don't know what everyone's been saying, because she always talked in that jamaican accent around me, so they all defended her to the death that she was really Jamaican, right, but they all happen to be white people.
Speaker 5:I love that, so you know Well if you want a great comedy routine on that. Cat Williams' White Friends is one of the funniest stand-up clips of all time.
Speaker 1:Yes, so RIP, miss Cleo.
Speaker 7:Yeah, yeah, you know, she brought some joy she. So yeah, you know she brought some joy?
Speaker 5:Yes, she did, and it's unfortunate that she was a pawn used by these people to screw over a lot of innocent Big time.
Speaker 1:That's why we're going to take it to Final.
Speaker 4:Thoughts.
Speaker 5:I think that Miss Cleo got a raw deal. I agree, I went in and I was like, oh, she's probably going to be somebody horrible.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And she was an actress trying to make it in this crazy world Not easy being a black gal, specifically in the 90s and before, obviously. So, yeah, I feel bad for the people that called in need of help and who got completely screwed out of tens of thousands of dollars. But Ms Cleo, I think she's just a pawn in a very, very bad machine.
Speaker 7:Yeah, I mean she made a lot of people laugh, she gave a lot of people advice, but the thing is she still needed to take some responsibility for her role. She also was the face of the con and at some point, I know she didn't get paid a whole lot unless she stashed money somewhere, which very well could be the case, because think about it, once it got really big, wouldn't you be like I'm gonna walk unless you give me this amount of money?
Speaker 5:I actually think the irony is she kind of got screwed by the same, by the people that did the same thing that she did to others.
Speaker 7:Yes, yeah, they like basically gave her ious yeah, and let's not forget, she screwed over her theater friends yeah, so it's just a lifetime of con and it's not like albert finney and big fish yes, where it's sweet and sentimental there are really.
Speaker 1:There's real damage here yeah, there were people that she victimized and then she ended up being the biggest victim of all in the whole thing in some ways yeah, uh. So I did go in thinking that she was going to be such a corrupt scumbag. But she had her faults, but she also did get completely screwed at the biggest point of her career.
Speaker 5:So also bob butterworth. You don't get it.
Speaker 7:Come on, bob yeah, the butterworth family. Yeah, I'll give you that, I think. I think that it was too big for her. She didn't realize, I don't think, how much she was conning people.
Speaker 5:Well, you, just sit there in front of a camera. You don't really realize how big it can be. All right, everyone. Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode of Death and Entertainment. Ben Kissel, Alejandro Dowling, Kyle Plouffe we will be back with you next week. Hail yourselves, everyone. Talk to you soon and until next week.
Speaker 7:Don't go dying on us, bye-bye.
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