Death In Entertainment
Kyle Ploof, Alejandro Dowling and Ben Kissel discuss Hollywood murders, true crime, on-set deaths and more!
Death In Entertainment
Jerry Springer: From Platform to Platform (Episode 154 ft. Jerii Aquino)
Jerry Springer: The man that turned trash TV into a blood sport. The King of the paternity test reveal, the sultan of scandal-- and the guy that proved if you threw enough chairs-- someone's bound to get a career boost. But behind the chaos, there's a darker story: A man who built an empire on other people's misery. That's today on Death in Entertainment.
Death in Entertainment is hosted by Kyle Ploof, Alejandro Dowling and Ben Kissel.
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Jerry Springer, the man who turned trash TV into a blood sport. Jerry, jerry, jerry, jerry, the king of the paternity test reveal, the sultan of scandal and the guy that proved if you throw enough chairs, someone's bound to get a career boost.
Speaker 2:We're switching gears to our friend Steve Wilkos.
Speaker 1:But behind the chaos there's a darker story A man who built an empire on other people's misery, Because in the world of Jerry Springer, we're all just one secret away from being a part of the show that's today on Death in Entertainment.
Speaker 4:Live from Los.
Speaker 3:Angeles 911,. What is your?
Speaker 5:emergency.
Speaker 6:We're in Hollywood now.
Speaker 7:Two counts of murder.
Speaker 4:Injury and death. Oh my God, shocking new details that has stunned the entertainment world.
Speaker 9:This makes me a little nervous. The hair stood up on my arms, just like in the movies.
Speaker 10:What do you call this thing? Anyway Death.
Speaker 4:In entertainment.
Speaker 1:Greetings Ditto Universe. Hi there, how are?
Speaker 4:ya, death in Entertainment is gone.
Speaker 2:kyle plouffe taking over the weather report. That's right. What's going on, everybody? My name is kyle plouffe, I am ben kissel and I'm alejandro dowling. Yeah today.
Speaker 4:It's a very jerry episode. We're also joined by jerry akito. What's? Up go to patreoncom slash die, but to support the show with really great content yeah oh my god, all right, besides their great live shows um.
Speaker 4:There's a whole bunch of bonus episodes yes like the kubrick moon landing conspiracy, among others, and coming soon we're gonna do one on gabby petito yes, oh nice, so yeah lots, lots of content so obviously I started the episode like that on purpose, because today is going to be a bit of a shit show, honoring the king of the shit show, jerry Springer.
Speaker 11:Yes, Jerry, Jerry.
Speaker 4:Jerry.
Speaker 10:Jerry.
Speaker 1:As you guys know, we are a true crime comedy podcast. People listening for the first time might not know that, so we are going to be having some laughs, despite talking about some dark topics, a'ight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if you don't like that, then change the channel. That's right.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4:Or don't Please. Don't though.
Speaker 11:Yeah, don't Please don't I don't want to scare you off Don't switch it off. Don't switch it off.
Speaker 1:Without further ado, let's talk about Mr Jerry Springer.
Speaker 11:Oh man, this is awesome. I love Jerry Springer. He took us through so many days that he skipped school.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 11:He just watched his nonsense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you wake up and then all of a sudden, people are just fighting each other.
Speaker 11:Yeah, throwing chairs.
Speaker 4:It was really nice to have Christmas with the Klan every year, every year Great.
Speaker 2:Exactly, he made your family feel normal.
Speaker 11:He really did. It was like, oh cool Things could be worse.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's crazy, he comes from a crazy background. His family had a lot going on. He was born Gerald Norman Springer. Gerald with a G, by the way.
Speaker 4:Thank God he changed that name. He would have had his mom's corpse in the closet somewhere.
Speaker 2:Gerald Norman Springer yeah, that's so true With a J that almost invites a Spanish pronunciation Heraldo. And then he could have went head-to-head with Geraldo, you know.
Speaker 1:He was not Latino, he was British. He was born February 13, 1944, literally on the platform of the London Underground train station. They call it the tube out there. What Whoa. In the Highgate section of London, which is the only place in London I actually performed. I had no idea I was on hallowed ground there.
Speaker 11:Yeah, seriously.
Speaker 2:I really love how Kyle has literally performed everywhere on planet Earth In the dipod universe.
Speaker 1:Shout out to Big N big nose radio. They had a great show that I was on there. Awesome, um, the station was being used. It was underground, uh, and it was being used as a shelter from german bombing during world war ii, so we talked about this on. Okay bud. There was a missing woman who ended up giving birth on the train and I had no idea that jerry springer was going to be in the same situation.
Speaker 11:Seriously, Jerry Springer's a subway baby? Yes, and he was also a Holocaust. His parents were Holocaust survivors.
Speaker 2:Yes, they call them tubers.
Speaker 11:Yeah, not a tuber.
Speaker 1:His parents, margot Kalman she was a bank clerk and Richard Springer he he owned his own shoe shop. They were German Jewish refugees who escaped from a Nazi-occupied Prussia.
Speaker 4:Wow.
Speaker 1:Which is current-day Poland.
Speaker 4:A lot of drama surrounding Jerry Springer's life already.
Speaker 1:Yeah, His maternal grandmother, Marie Kallman. She was left behind and she was actually killed in the gas vans of hell.
Speaker 2:no, oh, my God. That's what I would have been saying oh hell, no, yeah, that's what I would have been saying oh, hell, no, yeah uh, there was an extermination camp that I didn't even know.
Speaker 1:Gas vans were a thing either. Right, they were like the mobile versions of, uh, you know oh my god.
Speaker 11:Gas vans, yeah, on the go. Ovens, yeah, that's fucked up that's all that they did.
Speaker 4:They would just uh connect. It was all just gas from cars or from trucks that would go and be pumped into the chamber. That's all that they did. They would just uh connect. It was all just gas from cars or from trucks that would go and be pumped into the chamber. That's all they did.
Speaker 2:It was very makeshift oh my god, germans were efficient, I guess diy yeah uh, his paternal grandmother, selma springer.
Speaker 1:She died at the hospital at a concentration camp in german occupied czechoslovakia. Her brother, herman alcalis, was a renowned berlin doctor who was also killed at that concentration camp.
Speaker 11:In total, 27 members of his family died in the holocaust shit, yeah, oh my god, so he's born into chaos and survival and tragedy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a different kind of 27 club too. Yeah, none of them are good. No.
Speaker 1:That's right. In January 1949, Springer was four years old and his family took him from London to the United States, settling in Kew Gardens, Queens.
Speaker 11:Let's go, Queens.
Speaker 1:He attended Forest Hills High School.
Speaker 11:That's dope, that's dope.
Speaker 4:My God, so you're Jerry Springer. You're like I was born on a subway platform. Things are horrible. Now I'm in Queens, yeah, now.
Speaker 11:I'm in Queens. Take me back. Hey, come on. Kew Gardens is a very beautiful neighborhood.
Speaker 1:It really, is it really?
Speaker 11:is. It's gorgeous. I do like Queens. I love Forest Hills.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm from, and obviously there are formative events that happen in our lives that send us on a particular path, whether we want to admit it or not.
Speaker 1:One of his earliest memories about current events in the world. He was 12 years old and he was watching the 1956 Democratic National Convention, where he saw and was impressed by then Senator John F Kennedy. Ooh, so that kind of. He was so charismatic that he was like I want to be like that, right, yeah. In 2015, he recounted some of his life In an interview. He said my passion is politics and I've always been able to separate how I make a living from my passions. I never intended to make a living in politics. I grew up in the civil rights era, the anti-war era. I was your typical long-haired hippie, which I didn't realize. I could see that he was a war protester and he said I never gave a thought to making a living in politics. I got into politics because of my views.
Speaker 11:I mean I can imagine, when you grow up in all of that turmoil and all of the things, how it's had an effect on your family in such a deep-seated way. It's like, yeah, you're going to grow up in anti-war.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I would assume, when your family is killed in the Holocaust. Now you all of a sudden start to pay attention to politics.
Speaker 11:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 7:How did?
Speaker 11:that happen. Let's make sure that doesn't happen again, please. I don't think I was a fan of that.
Speaker 1:Right. He got his Bachelor of Arts at Tulane University in 1965, majoring in political science, and he earned a Juris Doctor from Northwestern University in 1968.
Speaker 11:Doctorate huh.
Speaker 1:A Jurist doctor. I didn't know what it was. I had to look it up. What is it? It's a graduate level law degree that prepares students to practice law.
Speaker 2:Does it count as a doctorate? Yeah, so he's a doctor.
Speaker 1:So he's a doctor, I guess. So, doctor Springer, doctor of law, yeah, dr Jerry.
Speaker 11:I love it, dr Jerry.
Speaker 1:It's the primary law degree required to practice law in the us. So then he goes on to try to make a career in politics. He said he wasn't in it for the money, which is good, which means he has actual, you know good intentions and wants to make change instead of just line his own pockets what politician is gonna say that they're in it for the money, though? Well, I mean their actions will show you that nowadays we.
Speaker 4:The artifice is so gone that now they do just say that. I think People are like I respect the truth. Yeah, he's going to fuck me over, but he told me he was going to fuck me over the devil, you know.
Speaker 2:And it can be very profitable because Obama did not go into the office as a millionaire.
Speaker 1:No, they all make $200,000 a year and they all have like $20 million in the bank. It's insane.
Speaker 4:You can check out Nancy Pelosi's stock and just follow what she does. You're going to be just fine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh wow, jerry Springer. He worked as a political campaign advisor to then Democrat Robert F Kennedy the original oh. In 1968. That was until a man by the name of Sirhan Sirhan fired three shots into him, resulting in his murder while he was campaigning. If he did it, ooh do we think he didn't do it.
Speaker 4:I don't think he did it. It was in public. Yeah, a lot of coups occur publicly.
Speaker 1:That's true. His brother was killed publicly too. Could we?
Speaker 2:possibly do an episode on this? Ooh, we should. It's entertaining, right, it's entertainment, yeah. By the way, I just watched the great Emilio Estevez movie about that night. Oh really, it's called Bobby. Oh shit, he directed it.
Speaker 4:Is it good?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I called it great, didn't I? Who plays Bobby? It's archival footage. It's all about the people around the hotel that day. Ooh, Interesting the kitchen work. It was actually much better than I thought. It's not a great movie. All right, I'll walk that back if you need a good afternoon. Watch, take a nap in the middle of it, bobby there you go.
Speaker 1:okay, following kennedy's assassination, he began practicing law at the cincinnati law firm of frost and jacobs, so he just wanted to go and you know, be a lawyer, a lawyer he's, like you know. I saw JFK get assassinated, bobby got assassinated. Maybe this isn't for me. Maybe I'm just in a place where they check you for guns.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it seems like a scary business politics.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in 1970, springer ran for the US House of Representatives at age 25. Three days after announcing his candidacy, springer, who was also an Army reservist at the time, was called to active duty and stationed at Fort Knox, kentucky. Damn, he's a busy guy. I mean he was an unabashed left-wing guy and self-admitted anti-war hippie, but he still reported he could have taken the fortunate son route and been like oh, I'm running for office, I don't have to go.
Speaker 2:Right. But he took the call and went Wow, like John Kerry, yeah, I guess. Well, he took the call and he was anti-war.
Speaker 10:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then had a career in politics. He could have been maybe that.
Speaker 4:Well, he couldn't have been president or ran for president, because he's not an American.
Speaker 2:That's true. Oh snap You're. Most people would not think that about Jerry Springer.
Speaker 1:He had previously led the effort to lower the voting age, including testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee in support of the ratification of the 26th Amendment. He resumed his campaign after he was discharged. I actually think we have that clip.
Speaker 5:Chairman of the Cincinnati Committee to lower the voting age to 19. And despite the fact that the issue lost very narrowly in Ohio, by somewhat less than 1% of the vote, we did manage to win in Hamilton County by over 10,000 votes and I got to know for over three months many of the young people in that community who become quite concerned about the issue. I imagine that I could take a few minutes here and discuss the merits of an 18-year-old as a voter. I could tell you that he is intelligent, articulate, well informed on the issue and concerned about the cities he lives in today and he will inherit tomorrow it's crazy.
Speaker 1:He's got the army haircut and everything, yeah, but you know he's, he's uh still sounds like him, just you know younger it's always yeah the total Jerry essence yeah his hair definitely had stages, as we'll notice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, big time.
Speaker 4:Yep, so the kids at 18, they could be drafted, sent off to a foreign war, but they couldn't vote. Yeah, that was probably part of his point. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:So, like I said, he resumed his campaign after he was discharged, but he failed to secure the election against the incumbent Republican, Donald D Clancy. But he took 45% of the vote in a traditionally Republican district. So, like I said, he could have just been like no, I'm running for a public office, I don't have to go. And they could have. They would have given them an exemption. But if he did do that, he very likely could have won.
Speaker 2:Wow, good for him so he was appealing to both sides.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it was a republican area. But still people really liked him, even given his anti-war, pro-civil rights stances. Uh, springer, showing in the congressional race, spurred him to run for city council one year later, in 1971. And this time he won. And this is in cincinnati. Yes, uh, patricia gary, she's a cincinnati political veteran. She told this american life that j Jerry was absolutely the most natural gifted politician she ever saw and there was a glamour around him. He was clearly a golden boy.
Speaker 4:Oh, that's nice. I think this guy could unite the Klan and the Black Panthers over Thanksgiving. Yeah, literally.
Speaker 1:In 1974, he was forced to resign after it was discovered that he had paid local prostitutes with bad checks.
Speaker 4:Oh well, that's the problem. You've got to get the checks right.
Speaker 11:The checks have to.
Speaker 2:They can't bounce dude no, or just cash it right beforehand.
Speaker 1:They bounce like that ass.
Speaker 4:I do love he did the dumb and dumber IOU. Yeah, you're going to want to hold on to that.
Speaker 11:Yeah, that's really sick. He was forced to resign. I feel like that is people believing in sex workers.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 11:Sex workers work okay.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 11:You can't just give bounce checks to them. That's why he was forced, not because he had them to begin with.
Speaker 1:Well, if it's like post-nut clarity, he's just like you don't mind a check, do you? He actually had to go have a press conference to tell people about it.
Speaker 11:Oh my God.
Speaker 1:That's not even fair he does so much.
Speaker 4:They didn't have Zelle. Right, I can't tell you how many sex workers have set up all of my payment plans.
Speaker 11:I'm dead Now. They're like Venmo Cash App, Exactly I didn't know that existed.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they're like we'll take Pokemon cards.
Speaker 11:They just pull out like a square card reader now.
Speaker 4:Exactly.
Speaker 11:You can tap, you can just do whatever you want Tap it.
Speaker 5:Engaged in activities which, at least to me, are questionable. What these actions have weighed heavily on my conscience and early last week I contacted the FBI and voluntarily answered all inquiries of what I had done and of what I had knowledge. I am continuing to cooperate in that investigation in any way that I can. I have also been informed by numerous sources that there is an investigation underway into the activities of health clubs in Cincinnati. I have visited health clubs in Cincinnati on a number of occasions, but these were solely for legitimate purposes. To the best of my knowledge, no club in Cincinnati which I visited was engaged in any improper or illegal activities.
Speaker 1:So him being a dumbass and signing a check and getting caught just screwed over every massage parlor in Cincinnati.
Speaker 11:Seriously, like he was just sitting there, like I swear to God that, no, no, none of them were happy endings yeah I swear I swear.
Speaker 4:You know the guy that. You know, the guy that owns the massage parlor, called like the milk den.
Speaker 2:God damn it jerry and in that press conference at the end they ask him would you ever consider returning to public life? And he's like I'll have to think about that, yeah that's hilarious.
Speaker 11:He does a lot. He does a lot with that later on he does remember back then, when those when these little crimes mattered as far as who was like representing you in public office.
Speaker 1:I mean, the biggest crime, in my opinion, is that he's writing a check for sex services. Yeah, like the man's family literally died in the Holocaust, you would think he doesn't want a paper trail. Good point, yeah, and we have this idea that older generations, like, are way more conservative and they don't understand what young people are doing. But let me ask you guys how badly do you think he was judged by the public after this?
Speaker 11:He seemed to be, like, really loved by everyone, so it it's like why give him a hard time over this?
Speaker 4:yeah, the check didn't go through. That's the problem.
Speaker 11:Yeah yeah, it's definitely.
Speaker 2:That definitely is the biggest issue it could have been kmart, where it didn't go through, and it would have been just as much fury I think yeah, yeah but I think that it was also the 70s yeah yeah, it was like it was.
Speaker 11:It was very taboo every?
Speaker 2:well, not exactly. I think the opposite. Like wasn't everyone like wife swapping and putting their car keys and fishbowls at parties?
Speaker 11:well, I, mean in like public, like just being in public office, like you can't be like you know, people are kind of doing it now or it's like, yeah, I've got a couple of uh conviction because court cases and stuff and some alleged things.
Speaker 1:But you know, yeah, president, it's fine, because in my own head I'm like, I'm thinking like the voting public is usually older and crankier and like more judgmental. Yeah, but cincinnati did not give a fuck. In fact, he became more popular hell yeah, let's go people were looking at him like did he do something illegal by having sex with prostitutes? Sure, but that's the oldest profession, damn it.
Speaker 2:They were more angry about the balloons in Ohio.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the Balloon Fest of 1986.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but they're all eating that Cincinnati chili. I don't like to think about them wife-swapping, having sex. It's nasty, it's a rumbly in my tumbly.
Speaker 11:Well, Jerry decided he deserved it. Was he married at the time?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they broke up soon after.
Speaker 2:Very happily married man.
Speaker 11:Oh, right right.
Speaker 4:Because he went to the milk den every fucking Saturday, got milked and came back all happy, yeah, yeah. So I think he's kind of a dork for taking out his accounting led Because he went to the milk den every fucking Saturday.
Speaker 11:Got milked and came back all happy, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think he's kind of a dork for taking out his accounting ledger and licking a pen to be like. Can I write this down?
Speaker 11:Yeah, sure.
Speaker 2:That wasn't all he was licking either, hey.
Speaker 4:Whoa Well, oftentimes you're not allowed to do that.
Speaker 2:That was another problem, man.
Speaker 1:That's why he didn't pay. That's why he didn't pay. I like to picture him holding up the checkout line, writing a check like a 90 year old lady in a grocery store. All these guys with boners just be like can you hurry it up? That's hilarious.
Speaker 11:Or just like telling the prostitute to like turn around so he can like lean on her back to sign the check, can I just?
Speaker 4:Perhaps that was the original tramp stamp hey.
Speaker 11:Jerry.
Speaker 4:Springer signing checks on the backs of sex workers. Jerry Springer signing checks on the backs of sex workers.
Speaker 1:So Cincinnati was like you know what. He may be a dork, but he's our fucking dork Hell yeah, yeah. Because at the same exact time remember this is 1974. So over the last 10, 11 years the public had seen JFK most likely get murdered by his own government, bobby. Kennedy get openly killed, and a gang of numb nuts broke into the dnc headquarters, aka watergate, to try and rig the election for nixon. So people were seeing what real political corruption looked like and this wasn't it which the funniest part about watergate is that they didn't even need to do that right.
Speaker 2:It was a landslide election.
Speaker 1:All that for nothing Dumbass, and Jerry said quote to be honest, the thought about ending it all crossed my mind, but a more reasonable alternative seemed to be hey, how about just leave in town, running away, starting life over someplace else?
Speaker 4:You used to be able to do that.
Speaker 1:But in fact he saw how popular he was so he didn't run away from Cincinnati, he stayed put and the next year he ran for council in 1975 and won by a massive landslide nice. He was re-elected in 77 and 79 and they say that springer was considered a gonzo politician. That's coming from like gonzo journalism, which means, like they just put, he puts himself at the center of the story, being like an active participant in an issue to prove the bigger point like hunter s thompson.
Speaker 4:Yes okay, like, like that yeah journalism yeah, hunter s thompson, he ran for sheriff in colorado.
Speaker 1:Damn near one damn so he pulled stunt, stunt, stutches, like staying overnight in jail and then commandeering a bus after the city took over the bus service that is so sick he's just like he's starting to have a flair for the dramatic now.
Speaker 11:Yeah, yeah, he's like putting himself in the chaos.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. He's like hey, I already wrote a bad check to a hooker, what more can I do? And now he's shocking.
Speaker 4:Yeah, now he's a bus driver. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So in 1977, springer was chosen by the cincinnati city council to serve for one year as mayor. The one-year term was because at the time there was a political arrangement that required the democrats to split a mayoral term with the local third party group, which was the charter committee, and that was like their you know third party friend so they were like you can be mayor for like a year yeah, but we're taking it back so we can have this third party schmuck in there yeah, but that's a good deal, I think yeah just like if you don't have to run again, you only have to do it for a year, so you never lost anything.
Speaker 1:Really, yeah sure so he was kind of appointed by that committee, um. But cincinnati has since changed, obviously, to direct election of, and in 1981, he stepped down from a seat on the city council in order to focus on a run for governor of Ohio. So he's going for the big time now.
Speaker 11:Okay.
Speaker 1:Seeking the Democratic nomination in the 1982 Ohio gubernatorial election. He failed to win the Democratic Party's nomination, finishing a distant third behind former Lieutenant Governor Richard F Celeste.
Speaker 11:Why did Ohio sleep on Jerry like that Shit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe it was a city thing.
Speaker 10:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like at the micro level he was beloved, but then at the macro level they were like I don't know.
Speaker 4:Yeah, also, the scandal may have resonated further out, in the rural pockets of Ohio. Yes, they probably looked at that scandal a little bit more like that, ain't right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and.
Speaker 4:Cincinnati is like we're trash. We don't care. Just kidding Cincinnati, just kidding Beautiful city. Good chili, no, no, Good chili. That cinnamon and that chili is something.
Speaker 2:Oh, that is yeah, that chili, that cinnamon and that chili is something oh, that is, yeah, that is I don't know cinnamon and I don't know.
Speaker 1:Cinnamon was probably the name of the instrument uh, and he finished behind ohio attorney general william j brown as well, and that put his career uh, political career on hold. So then he was forced to do something else and he started up. He was hired by the NBC affiliate WLWT to become a political reporter and commentator. At the time it was the lowest rated news program in the state. Good for him. Yeah so he's starting at the bottom again.
Speaker 4:He'll figure that out, yeah.
Speaker 11:Say what you will. He puts himself in all of the corners. He tries everything.
Speaker 4:He really does, and then he's going to learn quickly. Chairs are not for sitting, they are for throwing Throwing in people's faces.
Speaker 1:Let's see. He was given the keys to the studio pretty much Within a short time. He was named the primary news anchor and the managing editor. He needed a broadcast catchphrase in the model of other great newsmen. What did he go with? So, with the help of some others over there at WLWT, he created his signature line take care of yourself and each other.
Speaker 11:Whoa, that's where he came up with that. Yep, that's so cool.
Speaker 4:It is funny. I mean, it was like kind of weird because you'd be like this kid's 800 pounds and five years old yeah, let's feed him a bunch of hamburgers on our show. Take care of yourselves, you're actively killing people, but you know, I still love him.
Speaker 2:Or a bunch of Nazis are beating the hell out of each other. Make sure you take care of each other, folks.
Speaker 7:His teeth on the stage he's stepping on.
Speaker 1:So within two years he was Cincinnati's number one news anchor, and for five years he was the most popular news anchor in the city, garnering 10 Emmy Awards for his nightly commentaries.
Speaker 2:They loved him in Cincinnati.
Speaker 1:On ending each broadcast with his catchphrase take care of yourself and each other, he said yeah, it's a wonderful thought, certainly the right and decent way to live. But you see, I didn't make it up, you did.
Speaker 4:Come on.
Speaker 11:Jerry, you're so good, Jerry Damn, he just knows what to say.
Speaker 1:And then he didn't even use it. There he said God bless you and goodbye for his last newscast. And then he has the opportunity to go to a station and make his own show. So he wanted to do a talk show that was like politically inclined.
Speaker 4:Oh, it always was strangely political.
Speaker 7:Yeah, oh, it was strangely political.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, it was. Yeah. Yeah, jerry Springer Show debuted on September 30th 1991.
Speaker 11:Wow.
Speaker 1:And, like I said, it's a politically oriented talk show, a longer version of Springer's commentary. So that was the pitch, like I can do this for a half hour. And guests on the show included Oliver North and Jesse Jackson and they would have or at least try to have earnest discussions on homelessness and gun politics and other issues.
Speaker 4:Oliver North, a patsy in many ways. It's the Iran-Contra scandal. Yeah, that was huge in the 80s. Yep, it was huge. He was very disgraced at this time in 1991.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this show, this iteration of Jerry Springer, was awful. It had no soul whatsoever. It was just like any other show you could have turned on at the time.
Speaker 4:Right, he hadn't found the it factor yet.
Speaker 11:No, how long did they have the format being this politically, just talking about.
Speaker 1:A couple of years. Oh wow, yeah, they were ready to cancel it, and you'll see why.
Speaker 8:You knew, when you were talking with the Iranians about getting the hostages back, that that is exactly what the president of the United States had said on television we will not deal with the terrorists. He was telling other countries please don't deal with the Iranians, don't deal with a terrorist.
Speaker 8:And even to this day, in his own memoirs, President Reagan says we really didn't trade arms for hostages because we were dealing with the Iranians and the Iranians weren't the captors. But the reality is, every night on our newscast we've got stories about the crime and the great problems in our inner cities, and I think it's important that America gets to see the other face too, that you don't have to be born rich to make it.
Speaker 10:And that not everyone that lives in a project is on ADC or Social Security.
Speaker 8:And you've got a pretty good life going right now. As I understand it, what you're? A senior in high school.
Speaker 10:Yeah.
Speaker 8:What's next?
Speaker 10:College.
Speaker 8:You're going to college.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, I understand it what you're a senior in high school, yeah, what's next College.
Speaker 7:You're going to college, oh yeah.
Speaker 4:I thought it was interesting.
Speaker 11:That's a good I thought that show was just fine. That show sucks.
Speaker 4:That show is just fine. That's what American news should be. I was in and out. That was good. It was educational, it was Calming. Yes.
Speaker 2:You ever listen to the McLaughlin group on PBS. Oh, they're even worse than that.
Speaker 4:They're fantastic, oh God. You guys are the problem. You guys are the problem. It's boring. Yeah, we're talking about politics. Ken really likes that, so you wish it stayed that way, I mean, it would have helped the country.
Speaker 2:Okay, I guess.
Speaker 11:I don't know. He helped the country. He continued to help the country.
Speaker 4:By bringing in people who were scared of pickles and throwing pickles at them.
Speaker 11:To showing, to giving us a mirror to our own nature.
Speaker 2:And I think that was the last time the word college was ever uttered on that show.
Speaker 11:And people clapped about it.
Speaker 4:Without the word community in front of it. Oh boy. And there's nothing wrong with community college? I went to one.
Speaker 1:The actual station was like this, is so not intriguing at all.
Speaker 3:It's just like any other show.
Speaker 1:We need something else. So enter Richard Dominick in 1994. He was a tabloid writer that was writing about like Batboy and shit.
Speaker 4:Nice Real news. Batboy oh you know Batboy, he's another. Technically, I believe he would be a cryptid.
Speaker 11:Oh, got it. Oh man, yeah, I just learned about those.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he looks like Rudy Giuliani had an abortion.
Speaker 11:And that's Batboy.
Speaker 1:So let's see what this guy's all about.
Speaker 10:I wanted somebody going through the channels, hitting our show and saying holy shit, what the hell is that? Hi Jerry.
Speaker 6:Well, it just doesn't matter what. I ask you know.
Speaker 10:That's what it was about. It was about getting people to stop. Hey, Jerry.
Speaker 13:Bob, where did you get those shoes Like them? Where did you get those shoes I like?
Speaker 10:them. It started out to be a very funny, sexy kind of show Basically anything I could get away with at 2 o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 6:Oh, I would, but.
Speaker 7:I'm on a diet. You talk about giving people what they want, but where would you personally draw the line? Oh, I would not.
Speaker 10:There's no line to draw. If I could kill someone on television if I could execute them on television. I would execute them on television.
Speaker 1:Oh, fuck yeah, this guy is tapped, holy shit.
Speaker 4:And how nice was the show before where they were just talking about policy and that young girl is going to college. And the young girl is going to college and now the producer is like I'd kill him on tv if I could. I would have actually made the holocaust more of a reality series yeah, he's like give oliver north a live shotgun, geez well, love him or hate him.
Speaker 1:He revamped the show's format in order to get higher ratings and he told jerry, this shit ain't working. We need to get some weirdos in here. So okay, if we need people like a guy who leaves his family to marry a horse and we need it right now- oh, and is that who they got?
Speaker 4:Yeah, and you know how difficult it is to marry a horse. They rarely say yes.
Speaker 11:They're such naysayers. Yes, there we go.
Speaker 4:Nay, we don't have to explain it, we got it Everyone. We don't have to explain it, we got it, everyone gets it Absolute, great, great show.
Speaker 2:Yes, and this clip is producer Toby Yoshimura, and he was the call screener responsible for the horse.
Speaker 9:I just graduated college late and I'd been bartending for like four years.
Speaker 8:He was a very, very bubbly guy and really eager super eager.
Speaker 3:Can you start right away please?
Speaker 9:All this sounds great. You know I have no talk show experience. Is that a problem for you guys? And she was like no, you were a bartender. So you're kind of perfect because you can talk to anyone. So you're kind of perfect because you can talk to anyone Springer Show. It had to be like 3, 4 o'clock in the morning when I get a call from this guy. He says hi, my name is Mark. And I go hey, mark, and he's like I've been meaning to call the show for a long time. Okay, cool, because you guys are the only people that really would understand me. I left my wife and my two daughters for a Shetland pony.
Speaker 4:Nice. Oh my God, Really.
Speaker 1:Move over Oliver North.
Speaker 11:Come on, that's such a blatant way to just say that Like no, I understand, I fully get what is going on here. I left my entire family for a horse.
Speaker 4:From arms for hostages to a dude who's fucking a Shetland horse. Wow, he fell in love. You know what? If you're the wife though or, I guess, ex-wife what a nice clean break. Just be like wife, though, or I guess ex-wife.
Speaker 11:what a nice clean break.
Speaker 4:Yeah, just be like yeah, mark, yeah, he ended up fucking a horse.
Speaker 11:He ended up fucking a horse. Honestly, I want to say I didn't see it coming, but there were signs.
Speaker 4:Everyone will be on her side.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:No one's on Mark's side except for like one weird friend from Vietnam. Just like, I think it's fine.
Speaker 1:He was always trying to feed me handfuls of oats. That's nice.
Speaker 4:It's not like one of those relationships that just ends with oh, I guess we kind of lost the love. It's like no, he fucked a horse.
Speaker 11:Clean break, he wouldn't stop fucking a horse.
Speaker 1:That could also send people to therapy, being like am I not as good enough as a horse?
Speaker 2:I don't have hooves. Horses are beautiful Never compare.
Speaker 4:You can't compare yourself to a horse. I mean if the person wants to fuck a horse.
Speaker 11:Yeah, yeah, there's nothing you can do. Nothing you can do, it's apples to horses. Exactly you can't, you can't.
Speaker 4:I wouldn't feel bad at all, I'd be like oh no, that's a him problem, I'm not going to take that personally. And then she's like what if we introduced pony play into the bedroom? Maybe that would work.
Speaker 1:And it's like it's just not good enough, sorry. They wanted the show to be like. Guests were everyday people confronted on a television stage, and these confrontations were often promoted by scripted shouting or violence on stage. Scripted shouting were often promoted by scripted shouting or violence on stage.
Speaker 11:Scripted shouting. Scripted shouting. So they were told, they were given lines.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, the show received substantially better ratings and more attention, and at this time you know it's the mid-'90s. Attention is what Jerry is craving.
Speaker 4:Yes, it was the era of trash TV and trash food, I say the beginning of the mental and physical decline of a once great nation.
Speaker 1:So he tried to get more attention in other ways. So he dug his heel into even more projects, including one I had never heard of, and I'd be surprised if anybody listening or you guys right here have heard of this.
Speaker 8:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Did you know that in 1995 Jerry released a country music album? What I got to hear it Entitled Dr Talk in which he sang. Not about drinking sorrows away over women in his truck, not shooting a man in Reno just to watch him die, but the plights of being a daytime television talk show host. Can we please play a song?
Speaker 11:Yes, thank you. Yeah, we have to hear that.
Speaker 1:Mandatory, hewed up right here it's so fucking funny. That's amazing.
Speaker 11:It's up there with Macho man, randy Savage's rap album to me, oh my God.
Speaker 6:You say things aren't going well, you're halfway to hell. You lost everything that counts. Gone is your spouse and maybe the house. Oh, you haven't lost a pound. The kids are falling, creditors calling. When did life become this curse? The car won't run, your day's seen done. Could things ever get any worse? But then there's Oprah, phil and Sally, and Jerry Springer too. A little dose of a talk show host. You won't seem quite as blue. Cause, if that's the world, or part of it, where madams are sometimes sirs, you'll quit complaining. Things could be worse. Those calamities could be yours. So yeah, that's yeah. I mean he took it seriously, that was incredible.
Speaker 2:It's fantastic could be worse. Those calamities could be yours. So yeah, that's. Yeah. I mean he took it seriously, that was incredible it's fantastic.
Speaker 11:And he was promoting it. He was like you guys, this is all you need Trust me, Just watch these shows. Everyone is just like you.
Speaker 1:And he calls out Oprah, dr Phil Sally, jesse Raphael. Yeah Well, he hits on a great point as well. A lot of people watch that show to be like at least we're not them, at least my wife isn't having sex with the mailman who is at a price. They were trying to tell everyone that these people and situations were 100% real, so everyone took them at their word. So let's fast forward to 1998's Springer Break on MTV.
Speaker 4:The one thing about Jerry and I say this with all due respect you can't really trust him. We've already had a lot of different experiences with Jerry, where you're just like. I don't know if everything he says is accurate. However, what he's presenting is fun yeah. So he kind of gets away with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in 1998, I don't know if you guys remember the Springer Break thing on MTV.
Speaker 4:I remember that it was big news, absolutely, it was huge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they say. The MTV Springer Break special featuring talk show Titan Jerry Springer in Jamaica contained all the juicy subplots that have made his show tops in the daytime ratings war. There was Caitlyn, the girlfriend, talking about how much she loved Dave, but then came Matt, dave's roommate, boasting that he and Caitlyn had a secret affair. She sobbed and Dave sucker punched Matt and the audience roared.
Speaker 3:You were drunk we didn't mean to. What happened.
Speaker 13:I swear, what would you do? I think they had sex.
Speaker 2:Stir in the pot. Stir in the pot of chili.
Speaker 6:That's how I get to be a host.
Speaker 8:I know this stuff, don't touch me, just don't touch me, it was just, it was one time, it was not. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:Well, actually I want to tell you something else actually.
Speaker 8:Oh, come on.
Speaker 3:The other night we hooked up again.
Speaker 8:Wow, look at that.
Speaker 1:Well, he got him once.
Speaker 2:Yeah but he goes right over the head, honestly.
Speaker 11:Dude Kate was just carrying this entire performance. Those two dudes were so, so bad.
Speaker 4:Yeah, she did a great job.
Speaker 11:She's like oh, come on, Dave, shut up.
Speaker 4:I thought that was a fairly good punch, though it was better than Ali when he hit Liston. Sonny Liston, wow, the go punch which never happened. That image of Muhammad Ali over Sonny Liston, it was a work.
Speaker 2:Oh, or Tyson Jake, paul.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So this is typical Springer schlock, except for maybe one thing it was all a lie. What?
Speaker 11:So what it like leaked?
Speaker 1:out that this was a fake one. No, they've. The people who were on came out and like thought it was funny to tell everybody it was all fake and they went over on them.
Speaker 4:But also don't forget what was her name, was it jenny? What was her last name? Craig jones, jenny jones. She had somebody killed somebody else on her show. So it was a relation where a neighbor came out as gay to his other body. I remember that yes and then that guy who was straight ended up killing the gay guy, anyway. So producers were like maybe this shouldn't be real.
Speaker 11:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So there was a lot of safety to it.
Speaker 11:I see, yeah, and that's totally yeah, it's true, because I think you saw that moment between them where the dude was confessing his love to his friend and the guy, just like you could see, just his eyes are just rolling to the back.
Speaker 4:Oh he breaks. He's going, he just went black in the soul and he like smiles, he's like, ah, but yeah, you're like this guy, especially in the 90s. At that time it was a very big deal.
Speaker 2:Right, we did a whole episode on that on that we did.
Speaker 1:Oh, check it out. So at this time, the spring or break thing, it's a huge story. They're somewhat embarrassed and it comes at the same time. 16x guests said that they came out and they faked their appearances on the show oh my god, why are? They gonna do that? Why are they gonna do?
Speaker 11:that, though that's a great show.
Speaker 4:It's great content yeah, I was one of the clansmen at christmas, but I'm actually a civil rights worker yeah, I was, I was making it for the paycheck, I was, you know, yeah, and in the Netflix documentary, one of the producers, melinda Mele.
Speaker 2:She said she was fired over booking fake guests, but it was funny. She says something like on the phone they told me they were from Boston. Yeah, and I should have known right there because springer guests aren't from boston, what does that even? Mean I don't know what that means like they usually came from the south yeah, the midwest more earnest. If they're from boston, they're probably up to shenanigans I believe that so they said.
Speaker 1:at the time springer representatives came out and said they emphasized that since the special was an mtv and not a real Jerry Springer show, that none of their Springer producers helped verify the account. It's not on us, it's on those assholes.
Speaker 4:My one thing is if you're going to fake something, it's pretty on the nose.
Speaker 11:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, why not something bigger? It should have been a little bit more extravagant.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, and those guys were really bad, like it's pretty obvious yeah that's terrible yeah so they were nervous they were going to get canceled again. So, like they have all these people coming out saying this is all fake. And then they were like on the defensive, being like, no, we didn't do this, we had nothing to do with it. And then, uh, richard dominic was like fuck this, he comes out on the aggressive and he goes. Listen, this is not the news, this is entertainment. So, even if it's fake, who gives a shit?
Speaker 1:And so he got everyone to get on board with that being like, oh yeah, why do we care if it's actually super real or not?
Speaker 4:I kind of want it to be fake in a way, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the thing is, jerry Springer really wanted everyone to think it was real yeah, yeah it was like that's. He said that over and over again, emphasizing that the show may be stupid and it may be outrageous, but that it's a hundred percent real right yeah, so it took away from the authenticity of the people's craziness.
Speaker 11:I don't know, because I think they're still. They're still displaying it, right? Yeah, the chairs are being thrown for real like you said it's like wrestling. Yeah, is it. Is it fake when they're actually displaying it right? Yeah, the chairs are being thrown for real, like you said. It's like wrestling? Yeah, is it. Is it fake when they're actually slamming into each other like that?
Speaker 2:right here that, alejandro yeah later on in the show there's a couple things kyle's gonna go over. I'm sure that made the show go a little more mellow, and so I think the fights were controlled in the later seasons, but at first in its heyday they were really vicious.
Speaker 9:It was really simple If it did not contain fighting, it did not reign.
Speaker 10:People wanted the fighting, so that's what we delivered.
Speaker 8:She has been having an affair and now let's meet the fellow you've been having an affair with. Let's bring him out.
Speaker 4:Let's bring him out, come on.
Speaker 11:Just instigating.
Speaker 9:These were like big knock-down, drag-out, whoop-ass fights, fucking try. I mean teeth were knocked out. Some people lost literally chunks of scalp. Women would pull their nails off the fake nail with their real nail.
Speaker 11:Oh my god.
Speaker 8:The irony is I'm the least physically offensive person in the world. I've never hit anyone, ever.
Speaker 6:You know I've never spanked a child.
Speaker 8:I've never, ever, laid a hand on anybody in anger. In anger, yeah, and yet you know the reputation of course of the show is this professional wrestler.
Speaker 4:And I just cut to myself eating Snackwells. Remember those cookies that were like supposed to be healthy and I'd be like. I think I'm cut to myself eating snack wells. Remember those cookies that were supposed to be healthy and I'd be like I think I couldn't have a whole sleeve, yeah.
Speaker 7:They're kind of healthy.
Speaker 1:So the fear of being sued by all these people and the embarrassment of people finding out that a lot of the things aren't even true, they were nervous that they were done. But when they toned it down a little bit it still was doing very well and by the end of 1998 the jerry springer show was beating the oprah winfrey show wow, and it was reaching almost seven million viewers per episode is that?
Speaker 4:oh my god, is that? Is that, when she brought out the pile of lard that she lost on a radio flyer do you remember that episode?
Speaker 3:what?
Speaker 4:no yeah she lost like 80 pounds or something and then she brought it out on a radio flyer.
Speaker 11:And then she brought it out. Into the pounds that I lost. I was looking everywhere for them.
Speaker 2:That's the famous wagon episode.
Speaker 11:It's one of the most infamous moments. That's really gross, that was in the 80s I used to watch.
Speaker 4:Oprah all the time Because my mom would let me stay home from school to hang out with her and Oprah. She was pretty good, but I could see Sprer beating her in the ratings.
Speaker 2:I could see that she was still doing a little bit more like classic trying to be a highbrow yeah, 1998 would have been the height of that, because she actually publicly trashed the jerry springer show while promoting her movie beloved, which was a huge flop. So insult to injury she's talking shit about her competition.
Speaker 4:That's beating her yes and then her movie tanks they were both in chicago, so they probably were in a studio right by. Oh my god, it should have been so true they should have been like um professional kindred spirits in some ways like oh, I'm sure they liked each other in real life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because they were also like ebert was always very friendly with oprah because they're all in chicago yeah, so it's crazy like to be able to unseat oprah from the top spot.
Speaker 1:That is a feat that no one saw coming, especially even that year yeah oprah's out there trying to change the world and get exclusive interviews with tom cruise jumping on a couch right but here comes jerry with the kkk and yokels, punching each other's teeth out over the love of their cousins.
Speaker 11:And that's all the people really want to see.
Speaker 1:First place.
Speaker 11:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean one show had a bunch of raving lunatics and psychopaths. The other show was Jerry Springer.
Speaker 1:Hey.
Speaker 4:Yeah, hello, it's true. Who's killed more people? Tom Cruise, or, you know, a local yokel who banged his aunt?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so they're in the top spot. It seems like their woes were behind them, or were they?
Speaker 10:Oh.
Speaker 1:This is where I don't remember this happening, but this is a huge story. So, just two years after you, years after their scare of getting canceled, they were involved well, somehow involved in a murder that took place between guests.
Speaker 4:I thought you were going to say the planning of 9-11. Yes, that too.
Speaker 11:They got involved in a conspiracy.
Speaker 2:Muhammad Atta went on as a guest, I mean listening to the producer, he would loved it.
Speaker 4:He must have watched 9-11 being like why didn't we fucking produce this?
Speaker 1:yeah, camera on that plane okay so so the murder was?
Speaker 11:did it take place on stage?
Speaker 1:no, oh, it was like the jenny jones show where afterwards, afterwards, there was like a uh an argument because of the show oh, you know, what's fascinating about this is, I forgot this happened, yeah, and the Jenny Jones murder. I remember that that was in the zeitgeist.
Speaker 2:Like everybody knew about that. She was publicly chastised for it. This happened and I mean we'll find out, but it definitely was a blip compared to Jenny Jones.
Speaker 4:Also with. I don't know what the scandal is with this one, but with jenny jones, there were some people who took the side of the guy who murdered the yeah, yeah, ambush him like that on stage, and so that's fucking crazy um, just as a society, there was a larger debate with that murder, obviously it was very, very wrong.
Speaker 1:Kyle's one of those people I said I can see why he was so embarrassed, and if you're very homophobic, you internalize it and can do bad things.
Speaker 2:Listen back to our episode.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 11:Oh my God, I need to find that one.
Speaker 1:Well, this is not that episode. This is a different episode, I know.
Speaker 11:I'm going to have to find that one, just so I can figure out how mad I should be at you.
Speaker 4:Yeah Right, figure out how mad I should be at you. Well, jerry Aquino over here wants to bang Luigi Mangia.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 11:I don't, I do not. I just recognize him as America's sweetheart. There's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 2:Like Brian Kohlberger, right Sure, you never love Triangle.
Speaker 11:No.
Speaker 4:Different, come on, we all know it's different. It's different, it's different. This woman's name is Nancy Campbell Paints. It's different, come on. We all know it's different.
Speaker 1:It's different. We know it's different. Yeah, so this woman's name is Nancy Campbell Paints and she was on the show and we will get into the story here.
Speaker 6:He wants to be with me. He's back here to be with me.
Speaker 7:Why can't you accept that? It's pretty obvious that they were there to ambush her. This is her son and the interesting thing is the title of the show Secret Mistresses or whatever. If she'd known that that was the episode title she probably would have thought twice. But you know she didn't know that.
Speaker 1:Here he is, Ralph Fucking Ralph.
Speaker 11:Wow, that's husband.
Speaker 6:Hi Terry.
Speaker 13:Hey Ralph, how you doing.
Speaker 6:Very good, what's going on here? Yes, I had sex with my ex-wife yesterday.
Speaker 2:Yes, but the matter of fact, a month ago I married Ellie and I do love Eleanor, and look at her face, Look at Nancy's face. It's heartbreaking.
Speaker 4:You can't humiliate this woman.
Speaker 7:There's nothing that you can say, to humiliate her. The producers wanted them to get physical, make threats, and she wasn't about to do that.
Speaker 13:He's telling you he doesn't want to be with you. Wow, bye.
Speaker 7:Oof Wow Kind of an answer.
Speaker 2:So here's where I have a bit of a problem with Jerry Springer.
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I like him. We all love Jerry Springer. He's an icon. But the show did not treat her well because right after the appearance they said if you don't go back on the stage, we're taking away your plane ticket back home. Oh, my God. And she didn't really have money. So then she's like, well, you know what I'm not going to do, that I don't care. So she left and she wandered the streets until a good Samaritan bought her a bus ticket back home.
Speaker 11:Are you serious? I'm serious. So Jerry Springer does have some you know, like absolutely, he's got blood on his hands for sure. Even just watching him do that is like, nah, it's not cool. They're clearly like pushing her and just like yeah, like her son said, ambushing her.
Speaker 1:So who kills who? Let's see this clip.
Speaker 7:They told me what had happened, that someone had attacked my mom, choked her, pushed her down on the floor and stomped on her head. Oh my gosh. Pushed her down on the floor and stomped on her head. Oh my goodness. They said it was one of the worst scenes that they've ever encountered. What Mom was definitely lost in the coverage. I mean whenever they would report it, the first line would always be guest on Springer's show brutally murdered.
Speaker 3:Instead of his guests, jerry Springer's, in the hot seat seat, do you?
Speaker 8:think the show had anything to do with it or do you think it was poor Clinton? I can't comment further. You know, people happen to have been on the show, as I understand it. So, but I, you know, I hope they get the killer. That's the main thing. The rest is just television. This is, you know. Do you remember? We'll cooperate fully, but, as I said, I can't comment further.
Speaker 5:Do you?
Speaker 8:remember those people at all.
Speaker 11:No.
Speaker 8:Yeah right.
Speaker 5:Wow.
Speaker 7:Jerry Springer. He just kind of blew it off Like what do I know about it? How disrespectful can you be? It's just awful. Yeah.
Speaker 4:But they do film multiple shows a day, so I do think it's possible he doesn't remember.
Speaker 11:Yeah, that's really messed up. Well, yeah, I think he would remember the one guest that did not want to fight or throw a chair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe and the other thing is that obviously we know who the murderer is. It's Ralph, that awful guy.
Speaker 4:Oh, ralph is the murderer. Yeah, ralph, that, yeah, that awful, guy. Oh, ralph is the murderer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, so he murdered the ex-wife, yeah yeah, they humiliated her and then murdered her yeah yeah, like what the hell this is the very uh, shocking part is that it has nothing to do with the show, right? Well, what day did he murder her on? It was the exact day that the episode aired.
Speaker 4:That's sick. Oh my God, what there's no correlation right. Yeah, oh, that's crazy.
Speaker 11:Yeah, dude, that's so brutal.
Speaker 1:Here's the media coverage.
Speaker 3:A man whose former wife was killed after they appeared on the American television program the Jerry Springer Show has been arrested by police and charged with her murder.
Speaker 10:Eleanor Pannitz was initially held as a material witness but hasn't been charged.
Speaker 9:Does this have anything to do with the Springer Show at all? Are we responsible for months after they leave the show, for everything that happens in their life? We're not. We're not responsible for that.
Speaker 8:I don't mean to trivialize this. It was a very, very sad event, but it has nothing to do with the show.
Speaker 4:The fact that it happened on the day the show aired does kind of tie it together there.
Speaker 11:It does a little bit. If it was totally separate.
Speaker 4:I understand there it does a little bit. If it was totally separate, I understand their point.
Speaker 2:It's like if it was months later yeah, but yeah that ain't good well, and the fact that you put your guests through this, which I thought after the jenny jones tragedy, right, why doesn't this happen more often? Right because you're putting people up there who and be you know people are being humiliated yeah, really and then it did happen again with jerry springer. So it just brings up the question should they at the very least offer some form of therapy for guests that need it? Or follow up instead of just hey.
Speaker 11:Thanks for appearing on the show and also you didn't, you didn't do well enough, so you don't get a plane ticket home, right?
Speaker 4:yeah, bye no, they don't care they don't, they do not give a fuck.
Speaker 2:Reality tv is brutal and in fact what they would do to the guests is because, as I mentioned earlier, they're coming from rural south right and a lot of times it's their first time in the big city, so they arrive in a limo, they get a bunch of drink. It's their first time in the big city, so they arrive in a limo, they get a bunch of drink tickets, they get drunk, and then the next day the producer pumps them up like, okay, when your ex comes out here, throw a punch, call him an asshole.
Speaker 2:And then after the show hey, great job, limo. Back to the airport, fly home. That's it. There's no follow up, Right? You know that I don't think. See, what do you guys think?
Speaker 11:because it is kind of like I mean, should they follow up or not? They could, they could do a little bit of follow-up. But yeah, back then there was just I mean, mental health wasn't even a thing that people were looking into or taking seriously no so that wasn't going to come up, and I think it's just really sad that it's not even the person that was humiliated. I would have expected her to be like oh, she cracked and then she killed either her husband or the other girl.
Speaker 2:That's what I thought too.
Speaker 11:But it's not like. It's like they just they humiliated her and then murdered her. For what?
Speaker 2:That's a great question, very sad For what? That's a great question, very sad For what.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so you know this happens in the same time that this is happening, the contract for the show is up, oh, and the show is doing so well that he gets the biggest contract of his career. Wow, five-year deal for $30 million, wow, yeah. Five-year deal for $30 million, wow yeah, so I mean they're going through this craziest time in the show and they're at the all-time height.
Speaker 4:That's nuts.
Speaker 11:And maybe that's why we don't remember this specifically.
Speaker 4:Right and I wonder if it helped the show. They pushed it down.
Speaker 1:Oh, it was getting people to watch for sure, because now it's just like he went onry king live to be like this had nothing to do with us and he was making the rounds everywhere and I get it he.
Speaker 2:You have to have that sort of detachment to live with yourself, because people have said that worked with him. If he thought that that was the reason that that murder happened, he would have quit right then and there yeah, yeah but I also think that was a turning point for the show, where it did become goofier and you can see the difference. In that clip too, this is a middle-aged woman trying to maintain her dignity. Yeah, and after that, it's mainly just like, you know, like it's younger people younger.
Speaker 2:Younger people just acting out being silly, yeah Little schlock, little schlocky.
Speaker 11:Yeah, that was just too real it was yeah, I mean you just feel awful for her, just seeing her, like you didn't want Jerry to keep poking at her and being like he's leaving you. It's like, ah, just let her go.
Speaker 2:And when the woman says this lady can't be humiliated, jerry says something like oh, we'll try, oh man. We'll keep trying, oh man yeah.
Speaker 1:So on March 27, 2002, there was a 10-day trial and after 18 hours of deliberations, mr Panitz Ralph was convicted of the murder and sentenced to life in prison.
Speaker 4:All right, oh, come on when he lives today. For real, to life in prison? All right, ah, come on when he lives today.
Speaker 1:For real In 2003,. There was also a group of guests from Hayward, California that faked a love triangle for an appearance on two episodes of the show, and one of the guests in that group was murdered as well.
Speaker 4:Shut up by one of the other people.
Speaker 1:Yes what? But the police determined that his appearance on the show was not connected to the murder. Wow All that. His appearance on the show was not connected to the murder, so wow all right, I mean they're doing pr work for jerry springer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it sounds like. Yeah, the jerry springer show now has a larger body count than punky brewster and fear factor.
Speaker 4:Remember that show? Oh yeah, everyone had to eat testicles. Yeah, I knew someone who won it really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a girl. It was, uh, my buddy's older sister and uh, she was in playboy and stuff and then ended up getting on Fear Factor. Oh my God, had to eat Bob for cow hearts and bull testicles.
Speaker 11:Oh, my God.
Speaker 1:If you won, you only got like 50 grand.
Speaker 11:I'm like I don't know. Didn't you have to be like in a tub full of roaches or something too? Oh, yeah, Snakes, and absolutely not. Yeah, they get you.
Speaker 1:There was a. Now it was starting that. There's, like you know, a Jerry Universe, steve Wilkos, who was the head security guy. Everybody loved him. Girls would be like I just want to sleep with Steve Ew.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they did.
Speaker 1:They would want to like rub their boobs on his head and stuff.
Speaker 4:He was a sex icon. He was a sex icon.
Speaker 1:He got his own spinoff show, the Steve Wilco Show. He did.
Speaker 1:And I don't know if I said it, I said it before the episode. I actually used to go there. They would ship a bunch of us who were just like starving comics and musicians or whatever, load up a bus in New York City and send us to Stanford, connecticut, to go watch. It was a wild time. There's bound to be famous people in the audience that don't even know that they're going to be famous and they're going to be in the show on like the reruns or whatever so you saw steve wilkos or jerry springer uh, I did end up getting to see jerry springer one time awesome and that was like your david lynch, like being in the presence of greatness.
Speaker 2:There was an aura, yeah oh yeah, that must have been so entertaining yeah, it was awesome because that's what you grew up with. So to actually be there yeah, it was not person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, a trip, yeah, and uh, steve wilkos went on to have a successful run himself. Uh, they all stayed in connecticut for their final year. Steve wilkos is off the air now. Uh, jerry springer stayed on until 2018 wow damn.
Speaker 4:He had a longer run than I remember yeah, for real 2018 yep.
Speaker 1:On july 26 2018, they aired the final episode after 27 seasons wow, what was the last episode?
Speaker 11:like that's a lot of final thoughts.
Speaker 2:We have a clip here yeah, so this clip is not from the final episode, but it's from the 25th anniversary show.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Jerry gets a little emotional.
Speaker 13:Oh boy. So today we start our 25th year of doing this show. My gratefulness surpassed only by my surprise. My surprise that it's longevity. How in the world did we last so long? Admittedly, it's often crazy or outside the norm of accepted behavior, but what I've learned over our quarter century of shows is that, deep down, we are all alike. We all want to be happy. We cry when we're hurt. We're angry when we've been mistreated, and to be liked, accepted and respected, not to mention loved, is the greatest gift of all. Yes, we're all alike, know this. There's never been a moment in the 25 years of doing this show that I ever thought I was better than the people who appear on our stage. I'm not better, only lucky. So thanks for the 25 years. We've signed on to do a whole bunch more and as long as I stay healthy, we will and on that note, take care of yourself and each other.
Speaker 4:I mean, I feel like I'm a little bit better than someone who fucks their grandma. I don't know, that's a little disingenuous. I mean, I think he's being genuine in a sense, but also like come on.
Speaker 2:He really didn't look at the Shetland pony guy. I thought he was the same Guy's just like us.
Speaker 4:He wants to fuck a pony too. We're not so different. I don't know. I am a little different. Why is that guy wearing a diaper? He's 50 years old.
Speaker 2:Not that there's anything wrong with baby play, oh boy I don't know, and outside of the show he had other tender moments like Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Where he wanted to learn the waltz for his daughter's wedding.
Speaker 1:His daughter was born with a bunch of yeah, with like no nasal cavity and like blind what she's like, deaf she's like half deaf, deaf and blind what she's like deaf.
Speaker 11:She's like half deaf, deaf and blind. Yeah, I kid, yeah, and she became a teacher somehow, I don't know Really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, I don't know how that happened.
Speaker 2:I don't know. He learned the waltz and he danced with her at the wedding. Oh very sweet and he said that the moment that he hugged her after doing the waltz on the show Dancing with the Stars. He says that is his favorite TV moment in his career oh cute, not the pony.
Speaker 4:I mean, I think I would go with the pony.
Speaker 11:Pony's a close second yeah.
Speaker 1:And so after Jerry Springer ends in 2018, it's like anybody else, they don't want to stop working, so they got to figure out something else to do.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 1:In 2019, he actually got appointed. Uh, he finished some sort of. He got his license for something. He became a judge, judge jerry judge, but he was a real judge, a real judge.
Speaker 4:He was a real judge. Well, he's a lawyer yeah, and a doctor.
Speaker 11:Yes, he did have a jurist doctor yeah, I don't remember, judge jerry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a weird hazy memory he had on. Legitimate because it's like. Well, most of those are fake yeah, exactly so every single case his was real. Are you sure they were all real?
Speaker 2:yeah, I swear to god okay yeah, well, judge judy was sort of like that too, where it's real but fake yeah, yeah, they would cover the expenses for whoever lost, so like that's the reason to go on the show but a lot of like there was a failed comedian that I know he would go on those all the time oh, yeah, I
Speaker 1:know a bunch that did that oh, I know a kid I went to high school with that was on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, getting sued over a nightclub thing but is he really a failed comedian if he?
Speaker 4:got on judge judy yeah, yes, that's when you are a failed comedian he saw his 15 minutes yeah and think of all the dough that jerry springer collected through the years.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and then he probably had a really good deal with that final judge show yeah, I hope he paid back those sex scales from the 70s. I know, right, with interest, with interest, Gives him a real check.
Speaker 4:Here you go this one doesn't bounce at all.
Speaker 2:In fact, I'm going to Venmo you.
Speaker 1:So Jerry Springer? He ended up having pancreatic cancer.
Speaker 11:Oof the worst.
Speaker 1:Which is the absolute.
Speaker 4:Is it that one and the butt right, the butt cancer and the pancreatic cancer? Are those the two worst?
Speaker 2:I think so Is that colon cancer?
Speaker 4:I think it's colon cancer, oh.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Oh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but pancreatic is really that's like sure death.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah. It's hard to beat one yeah sounds like it jerry springer died april 27th 2023 at 79 years old. Wow, in evanston, illinois. All right, p jerry. Yeah best in power it's just so crazy because, like if you didn't grow up in that time, it's hard to really appreciate how big he truly was like he was on everything. He was on roseanne, he was on the x files, he was on the X-Files, he was on the Simpsons, like everything he was everywhere.
Speaker 2:Austin Powers, the spy who shagged me.
Speaker 11:Yeah, is he in that? Oh my God, that's right he is Dr Evil?
Speaker 4:Yes, At the beginning. Oh, that's hilarious yeah.
Speaker 1:But it's just such an insane life story, going from escaping the holocaust to coming over here, being a political success get into some shit with a hooker that you were paying like an asshole, yeah, and then that just sets off your whole career of smut tv.
Speaker 2:There you go yeah that was the spark that led to everything now oh yeah so he went from the whore to oh right, okay to the horse, the whore to the whore to the horse.
Speaker 11:Oh right, okay. To the horse From the whore to the horse Jeez Louise, you know, just graduating creating an entire culture of people enjoying other people being crazy and chaotic on television.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 11:Everyone, everyone shouting. Listen, I've been. The chanting of Jerry has been happening to me my entire life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course it's been a whole thing.
Speaker 2:It's a high compliment.
Speaker 11:Yeah, of course it's been a whole thing.
Speaker 2:It's a high compliment. Yeah, I like it. I have always been down Also, when people weren't getting murdered. It was all fun and games too. Yeah, a lot of entertainment.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So that brings us to Final thoughts. Jerry Springer American original. So I thought that was interesting.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Born on a subway platform and then he went on to have one of the largest platforms in all of television. Hey, yeah, it was interesting. Good life 79, not too shabby. Yeah, he made it happen I feel there's no one.
Speaker 11:There's no one like him.
Speaker 4:There's not going to be anyone like him again I don't even know if we need anyone like him again. Yeah, exactly, I think we did it. Yeah, no, we definitely did it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah but you can't recreate that. Just like you know jimmy kimmel and jimmy fallon they have their clips on youtube yeah, yeah night show with johnny carson. That was a different story. There were three channels. Everyone was watching that same with jerry springer like.
Speaker 2:a lot of people can see the goofy clips on youtube from the past 20 years of the show, but before that Jerry Springer ruled daytime. It really did, and that was a lot of the. That was where a lot of people were exposed to things that you would have never seen otherwise, Like. There was a documentary I watched called actually. This is an interesting clip if you want to play it. It's from this documentary called Disclosure, but in the documentary trans people talk about the impact the show had on them as kids.
Speaker 12:Wow, you broke a lot of ground, specifically seeing the Jerry Springer episode with Reno. Joe Reno was on. Jerry Springer comes out. You know this beautiful little black guy. He's out there with his girlfriend and he's like I got something to tell you, I'm a girl.
Speaker 1:I remember that.
Speaker 12:I remember that and that, just that blew my mind. You are a girl, this is a girl, this what you mean, this you don't got no reason to disrespect me on this show.
Speaker 3:Not only was Reno the first time that I saw someone transmasculine on television. It was the first time, clearly, that I was seeing somebody black and transmasculine on television. What do you call yourself A trans Transgender? So to see this image, you know, in front of me on TV, I mean it really was empowering.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's my final thought. You take the good with the bad. It was trash TV, it had some unfortunate incidents, but as a greater contribution to the pop culture, like what a gift. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think I can say anything better on top of that. He's what a life and gone too soon. Rip.
Speaker 4:Was he, though Was he gone too soon?
Speaker 1:He could have gone to his 80s 79?, that's pretty good.
Speaker 2:Steve Wilkos told TMZ after his death that he thought that Jerry was going to outlive him.
Speaker 3:So you're just one of those that you like having around and you think they're going to live a lot longer.
Speaker 2:And final shout out to his 1998 movie that people have forgotten about Ringmaster.
Speaker 11:Saw it in the theater. Well, I'm going to go home and listen to that country album.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's amazing. What was the name? Was it Presley that was in that movie? Ringmaster?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Jamie Presley.
Speaker 4:Jamie Presley.
Speaker 1:Fox. Yep, yeah, and do you hear that, alejandro? You've got mail. Whoa hey, we got a mail bag from lmarco72. A five-star rating. You guys, whoa Entitled, die Happy, they said stumbled on this looking for a show on the Menendez brothers. The podcast is like a skin tag A little annoying at first, but it grows on you.
Speaker 1:That's so nice, that is so nice and before you know it, it's a part of your life. Witty conversations and interesting chronicles of lives and deaths of those in the entertainment industry. After jumping around a few episodes, I decided to start with episode one and work my way up. I'm glad I did and highly suggest it. Lots of fun connections between episodes, doing a bunch of quotes of our inside jokes. Their sense of humor makes me happy. Looking forward to catching up on one episode at a time. Great show, gents. Keep up the good work the skin tag of podcast.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there you are fuck yeah you makes me happy.
Speaker 11:It's just so brutally honest. And then it just, and it comes right along with five stars yeah, it's like no, trust me, it really does grow on you that's every good relationship is like.
Speaker 4:At first I hated him yeah, it was a real annoying schmuck, but now we're best friends.
Speaker 1:If you guys go to Spotify or Apple Podcasts, give us a five-star review, we'll read it on the show. If you want to go to patreoncom, slash diebud. The OK Bud podcast and Death Entertainment have combined forces and two podcasts, one Patreon. You get to see five live shows a week, four from OK Bud and one from Death and Entertainment.
Speaker 4:Yes, we will be back with you next week. Hail yourselves everyone. Talk to you soon and until next week don't go dying on us.
Speaker 2:Bye-bye, bye.
Speaker 1:You have just heard a true Hollywood murder mystery. I have never seen anything like this before.
Speaker 5:The movies, Broadway, music, television, all of it.
Speaker 13:A place that manufactures nightmares. Okay, everybody, that's a wrap.
Speaker 4:Good night. Please drive home carefully and come back again soon.